It’s Your World
Chapter: Season Four
This is a touchy subject for some GMs and I have seen some massive arguments break out of the levels of realism involved. To shitter or not to shitter seems to be the question. Honestly, I do not sweat it too much but it’s always nice to see writers include water closets and such in their adventures (and it not be an excuse for an Otyugh encounter).
Wednesday, the group reaches the lair of Qesh’Nax (aka throw down).
One of my favorite dungeons was actually drawn out to be something that someone once actually used. There was an old kitchen, a water closet, and most of the other rooms were fairly nondescript, but you could figure what they were used for at some time or another.
I always think it’s strange when a DM just pulls out, “It’s a giant 12 story castle that was apparently built to do absolutely nothing but supply goblins and bandits with 80 billion hiding places.”
I unno. It might be because the writer and DM part of my brain always just jumps around to all the possible holes that can be poked in the writing if I was writing the scenarios. Kind of like when you’re playing a video game and the extent of the house is a living room featuring with no side rooms.
#beginthearguments
#Ihaveusedthewordargument20timesthisweekanditstilltakesmetwicetospellit
Well, most of the time such discussions come up is when the GM is actively trying to screw over the PCs for one reason or another (‘being a dick’ is a reason. Not a good one, but a reason). You will also get uncreative GMs who are trying to make things seem ‘more real’.
The problem is, it not only breaks flow, suspension of disbelief, and seriousness, it’s not particularly good storytelling. Show me ONE passage of Tolkein where someone drops a deuce.
Also, I have it on good authority that elves do not, in fact, poop. They just hold it in, compressing their crap until they die of gravtic implosion at the age of 250.
Well there is a time and place for a DM to be a jerk. If it adds to the story telling, and fits with the style of your group. I agree though just adding it for the sake of it is poor story telling.
As for being a jerk, here is how I see it playing out.
I’m guessing if you fail that saving throw you take negatives to your charisma(from you know smelling like…), and if your armor is pierced you are also at risk for becoming sick from infection until you clean yourself up.
There could be actual use for such jerkiness. Mac TÃre Ironfoot(my super smart hunter) was recently on trial for treason(Heaven forbid I save my compatriots lives, and possibly the entire city. I mean how bad is if for a Dwarf to strike a detente with a Drow… apparently very…). Anyway I was on trial and had just had my nobility stripped because my father tried to kill a noble… again. So if the DM had made me roll against being so nervous I shart myself that would have been a jerk move, but totally worked as I was on trial for my life.
For the most part it is super lazy, unless it is done very well.
I agree. It’s like the “You never mentioned taking your stuff when leaving this morning” argument (remember a few page earlier) When a GM is this low, he’s either hopelessly bad or taking revenge for something you did…
On a side note, it’s true that a lot of dungeons (even in commercially published adventures) aren’t realistically designed.
I’m of a few minds on this. First I alwayse think of using the necessity happening off screen when you make camp sort of like you hardly ever see anyone go to the bathroom in movies or in books. If you do it’s to look in the mirror.
On the other hand, you can’t just have a bathroom built into the map and not use it. It’s the old writers trope. If you have a sword on the mantle in part 1, someone better be stabbed by part 3. Updated to, if you place a gun on the desk someone better be shot with it by the end of the story. Or the ultra modern version, if someone mentions the nuclear howitzer something better blow up.
So if you write the necessity into the map, or description of the location and you don’t use it. You’re all(the whole group) is failing at story telling 101. So unless you’re willing to actually use said facilities in all of their horrible beauty, it’s not worth mentioning.
For me as a writer, I’m evil though. I like to torture my characters (I have scenes planed out where the audience sees the hero could have been happy if only he chose door number 2. The hero will never no this though.) and readers. I’ll mention a knife at the end of a book and not stab someone with it until one or two books later. Or rather that’s my plan. Still working on novel one.
Reminds me a lot of this:
http://www.goblinscomic.com/01202007/
very much so.
i ran a game once where the party encountered a pair of juvenile red dragons.
who were lighting their farts.
after a little huddle they opted to challenge the young dragons to a belching contest. the dwarf won.
lucky sonofa leveled off THAT rp..
To be fair, that sounds like EPIC roleplaying! 😀
In my current game, the party came across some toilets in an old dwarven city. There then ensued a half hour discussion on whether fossilised dwarf poop could be used as a fuel source. Moral of the story: My players are weird, and will try to profit from ANYTHING they come across.
Heck, with all dwarves mining the fosilized poop might have diamond or gold dust in it or something. Gotta sift thru it to make sure youre not giving away a bit o mithril before selling it as a rugged durable fuel. HAH!
Our recent evil campaign included a ship that had a captain’s latrine. By the end the captain was pinned to the door of said latrine by a series of arrows, and his first mate was stuffed head first down the “throne” after he showed us where the captain’s lockbox was hidden. In hindsight, we did some regrettable things to the crew of that ship, considering we later decided to claim the ship as our own rather than leave it.
Man, I instantly tune out when games go down this road. Opportunity cost is not shitting your pants or having to spend 30 minutes to get your armor on or off, or not being able to rest properly because you’re wearing X.
i hold my players to the armor stuff, though i bring the time factors down.
but then i also play on variant rules that convert armor to damage reduction and actual ‘AC’ converts to damage avoidance, so 9/10 players actually come out breaking even or ahead when unarmored, depending on their agility scores, and some optional equipment like shields/bucklers and whatnot.
many of my players drop the money for a duelling sword or shortsword, and a light/small shield, for when in camp or walking around town. they only break out the actual ‘gear’ when its time to throw down.
Not a bad way to do it. AC is something that always bothered me regarding D&D and derivative systems. It might be easy to roll, but it works on something of a logic fail.
If someone demands that you RP bodily functions, tell them to go play FATAL if they like it so much.
Now, now. We try to stay civil here.
(And one day I WILL remember which one of the two reply buttons to use.)
Well, one of my last D&D characters was a Minotaur. I was very low on cash, so I started to keep my “Disposal”. Then I sold it to farmers as manure, to get a few coins.
What does a treent eat anyway where its gotta poop? Berries? Squirrls? PCs? Ive often tried to do up castles n whatnot where it makes sense with kitchens and servants bedrooms and even, tho not using that term, a water closet or 2. Theyre classic in castles cuz so many were conquored in real life by having some guy climb up a toilet and open the gate.
And in high school one of the first adventures i remember doing was clearing wererats from what i believe was from beneath someone’s “water closet” yippee.
Nice mix of humor with your heavy plot of the new world btw. Gotta have a proper mix for the right tasting game comic. 🙂
And we all know how often such anecdotes and jokes come up while playing. 😀
My ‘weird’ party has a centaur PC, and when walking down tight corridors he will shit ‘suddenly’, simply to harass the people behind him. I got shat on once, I slipped in his excrement twice. However, I will have my revenge… someday… perhaps…
Pratchett recommends (see Night Watch) a stick of fresh ginger up the offending zone.
Now, now. We try to stay civil here. 😉
Usually I will skip taking dump, both as a player and as a GM. If some munchkin however starts to insist on always (really always) wearing his reinforced heavy full plate, I will not hesitate to make him suffer a little for it. Exhaustion, lack of good sleep, crapping his armour.
If it’s only for half a day, then a pause over lunch, than wearing it again until evening, that’s not a problem. I know that I can hold it that long from personal experience so I’ll give it to a character that he can as well. But I’ve also played with guys who wouldn’t have their characters take of their armour for weeks. And these guys deserve it.
Other than that, the character taking a leak behind the bush can always be the one vulnerable target you need to give your bad guys the chance they need. And a closet can be a good place to hide or excuse for being in that particular hallway (more so the need to get to it). So it’s one thing that should never be left out of a location map. Heck, friend of mine once snuck into a nigh impenetrable castle by climbing the wall and forcing his way into the wooden structure of the outlying (well, hanging) privy.
This is actually the major reason I’m revamping the world’s largest dungeon as I run it. I’m trying to figure out what every area was actually used for and why the hell it’s laid out the way it is. And where all the bathrooms are.
Hey, the Enterprise-D only had one.
Not according to the blueprints I have. It has a bunch of them, including ones in most cabins.
I actually picked up CADD originally so I could study and design buildings, because I wanted more realistic designs and comprehension of buildings and pathings and utilization of space from a design perspective, so my AD&D maps would be more awesome.
I have nothing but pride in this (especially since it later turned into Maya skills that bought me my HoL books, bringing the whole thing full-circle.)
I’m thinking “Bob Cross” was playing 2nd edition rules. You couldn’t brush your teeth in 2nd ed without having to do a dex check. Fail and you impale the brush into the back of your throat, choking to death with minty freshness.
With 3rd ed and up there is the “expectation” that certain actions that don’t fall within the realms of game play happen normally without the need of RP or checks. (ie. As long as your character has food, it’s capable of eating it.)
As for the armor, depending on the make, full plate consisted of cuisse overtop of either mail or leather chaps, with tassets (skirt) covering the hips. The armor was created with the “biological needs” already thought of. The concern of crapping in your pants would be no different than being bundled up for winter in a ski suit today. In fact probably less as I’m sure going in the woods has less social ramifications for the characters. HOWEVER, someone in plate, not mounted, requires up to 3 times more food and water due to the much higher energy expenditure.
One more point, you’re assuming that these places have running water. The WC usually consisted of chamber pots that were stored in sleeping chambers and cleaned out after use, or by cleaning staff.
You can’t really make a plate armour all too easy for the biological needs without leaving huge gaps in it. While it doesn’t take all too long to remove enough of it to take a dump, it can still be up to several minutes. Pretty much depends on how well protected your loins and upper legs are (plus your hands, dexterity you know) and how many connections there are between the upper and lower parts of the armour. Fairly easy in chainmail and gambeson though. Just remove the supporting belts and then lift, gives you easy access to your trousers (for the small price of having to jam several kilograms worth of metal between your elbows and lower ribcage/waistline).
Yes, I’ve gone full days in armour. Why you asking? 😀
Anyway: I’ve come to the conclusion that heavy armour only really makes sense in massive battle, where a hit can come surprisingly somewhere out of the turmoil. Or of course for occasions like a tjost. Outside of those however, lighter armour is preferable. A long chainshirt over gambeson with a few plate pieces to protect your shins and lower arms (especially weapon arm) is actually quite comfortable, leaves you very maneuvrable while giving good protection for most combat situations. And outside of that, some hidden heavy leather, chainmail or cuirass is both good to wear and can be worn secretly, coming as a bad surprise to possible attackers.
…
I’ve gone into a larp-rant, haven’t I?
I assure you, among this crowd, you won’t stand out.
Wow, this just gave me a great idea! Party enters a rocky, dusty, severe desert area. There are no oases here, nor wells nor springs either. Only sporatic seeps. And sudden, 2 minute downpours. They’ll soon learn to keep a clean bucket handy at all times.
There are also scattered stands of plants. There are the expected scraggly bushes, cacti and such. But they also keep running into tomato plants, cucumbers, berry bushes, and root vegetables. And these are never closer than 50 ft to any of the seeps or pools.
I wonder if they’ll figure out this mystery 🙂