I’m looking forward to see how this develops. I know what Bret says is technically right. But I myself find that being told “you suck and you need to stop being a miserable looser” rarely helps and even makes it worse for me. There is probably time and place for that kind of “tough love”, but people are different and react differently.
Also I just realise I have a friend who is a bit of a Brett (sans the serious a-hole history).
Yep. Especially for people whose lives have been orientated around others (GM’s, or Dad’s who’ve worked hard when their wives MLCrisis hits).
If you’re used to cruising for support and get the recognition from society it is just a matter of “move on”. But if you’re not one of those people, shit gets painful when you realise there’s no prize at the bottom of the crisps bag.
Except Brett didn’t say he’s a wreck and needs help. Brett said he was tired of Sam’s reactions to things and that Sam needed to magically make it better *because Sam wouldn’t be giving Brian his games anymore*. Brett might be technically right but he’s backasswards when it comes to how to do anything for Sam. In the words of Z. Beeeblebrox, “So: ten points for style, minus several million for brains, baby.”
He did. The Depressed Mind does not work the same way as the Rational mind. Everything Brett said to sam is “you suck, you suck you suck you suck and you are making it worse for everyone around you, you little wuss”.
Brett’s not wrong that Sam needs to fix problems. His way of doing so was utterly wrong.
That wasn’t even remotely what Brett said. The only mention of gaming he made was that it was Sam’s greatest love (you going to deny that?). And his idea of “magically making it better” (your words) was “talk to someone” (his words). Whether he meant his friends, or a professional, neither of those count as “magically making it better”. He specifically called Sam out on expecting things to magically get better!
Wow. Heavy. It’s the strips like these that make me realize how little we know about the lives of the group when they’re not at the gaming table (other than Brett at this point). I love the gag strips and the roleplaying sessions, but I really hope we can see more comics about the characters’ families and their childhoods somewhere down the line.
“Who does Brett think he is telling me how to live?” …um you mean other then the ultimate arbitrator of good an evil on the mortal coil cause you know HE’S SANTA
For those hating on Brett for his insensitivity in last comic…I kinda feel like Brett knew he was inadequate for the “real-talk” portion of helping Sam, and that Jeanie was the one who could help – which is why he went full dickmode to make Sam angry enough for Jennie to break through the self-pity.
If Brett knew he was inadequete to do so, then he should have shut the hell up.
Thing is, how Brett reacted is NORMAL. It’s how people react to depressives, time and time again. Because people think all a depressed person needs to do is pull themselves together. Because if you aren’t depressed, it’s that easy. It’s not if you are depressed, and all being told that does if you ARE depressed is make things worse.
honestly, yes i think brett could have handled that much better, but i dont think ges completely wrong. sam has shown time and again that when things o wrong he retreats into himself, heaps all the blame on himself, and shuts people out. Remember jeanie? sam got so pissed that he killed off their characters and punished them in the game that they all love for it. Brett is trying for the swift kick in the butt approach, but the thing is is that is his only way of dealing with such things. Hes been shown as not being well equipped to talk about his feelings, so is trying to get through to sam via at least his anger at brett. I agree that brett is not well suited to this, but sam is also very content to keep up his cycle and turn away, letting his anger and self-depreciation control him. speaking as someone who is currently still dealing with depression similar to what sam is going through i can say firsthand that that is how ive reacted in the past and that it is very hard work climbing back up, but i wish that i had a guy like brett who at least was trying like that to help. I am more on my own
Brian, this is the reason I can’t get this D20 Monkey off my back. This storyline took an entirely different direction that what I expected, but in a way that still stays true to the characters. Great job.
Thing is, I’ve been on Sam’s side of things… I’ve had chronic depression and thoughts of suicide since I was six, and actually attempted it once. It’s a dark place, and I’ve been getting better recently with the support and help of friends and my husband.
The main thing is, I would have MUCH preferred Brett’s approach to me being depressed then what I mostly got; which was people trying to offer platitudes and ‘try smiling, you’ll feel better’, and all of the empty NONSENSE people spout when they’re trying to be ‘nice’ to depressed people.
They might think it helps, but all it does is show a lack of empathy. Sympathy =/= empathy, and to someone in my state, it was just empty words said to make the person feel better without actually giving a shit about the actual problem. Brett may be rude as all hell, but his words still show that he actually DOES give a damn, which to me is WAY more important.
I don’t know if I’m depressed or not, but when I do manage to think about setting goals for my life, something the motivates one to look forward to, and work towards, a worthwhile reward, I can’t think of any definite plans since I was in high school. I hold a steady job, have friends and family, enjoy fun things like games, movies, (some) meals, conversation, stories (like d20monkey!) and helping others, but it seems as though I’m barely ‘treading water’ instead of enjoying “my life” as I’d hoped it would be 20+ years ago.
I don’t know why I can’t seem to set goals, or why someone (me) with so much to be thankful for should be so easily discouraged and unmotivated, particularly when there is potential (imagined or real, as I was always told growing up) for something more fulfilling, like having a wife & kids and a career that I enjoy (like our gracious host has, tough as it might be at times).
Maybe I’m just lazy. Maybe I’m depressed. Maybe I spend too much time empathizing and too little time focusing on self-improvement. A lot of maybes, a lot of questions, but too few answers that you’d think someone with my (supposed) intelligence could figure out.
Rambling aside, and more on-topic, I really appreciate how much life Brian puts into these characters, and that he deals with tough subjects in the story so us readers can talk about it. Even if I don’t comment much (though I really should sometimes), I find a great deal of value and, sometimes, cathartic feeling, in reading the strip and the comments from other readers.
For whatever it’s worth, Brian, your project, hobby, life’s work, or however d20monkey should be classified so that those of us without your courage, dedication, skill and talent can relate to it in a qualitative manner, is complete success in my book. Thank you so much for sharing it, and yourself, with us.
You pretty much just described exactly how my life is – although my timeline is admittedly a little shorter, as 20+ years ago I would’ve just started elementary school and plans for life basically boiled down to; “what are we having for dinner when I get home” and “how do I avoid getting picked on at school today”. :p
Anyways, I just wanted to say: I know the feeling.
It seems a number of folks around here know the feeling, so I guess that means we’re in good company, as it were. 😉
As for my timeline, if I had to guess, I’m closer to Brian’s age than most, which seems typical for my online “haunts” these days. Not sure what that means, but I don’t need anything else to over analyze, either. 🙂
Smile Smile It Gets Better doesn’t help, because even if it WAS true (which..uh..it isn’t) there’s no way a depressed person will believe it.
But neither is “you suck and everyone else is better at dealing with stuff than you”, which is what Brett’s first speech is summed up as.
I’ve been on all three sides of depression – personal, helping others as a friend, and dealing with it as a professional. Brett is techincally correct – Sam has a pattern, it’s self destructive, and it needs to stop. It’s also utterly in his character that he’d react that way, and one of the normal responses from Frustrated Friends.
I think one of the things we can read from the comments on this arc is that everyone deals with depression differently, and something that might snap one person out of it will only drive another deeper down the rabbit hole.
What got me out of my own depression was a conversation with my dad. He’s always been a really proud man, and I still remember his expression when he told me he wanted to help me but didn’t know how, and begged me to talk to someone. That was when everything sort of clicked – I realized I wasn’t getting better on my own, and sought therapy.
That approach worked great for me, but there’s no way it’d work for everyone.
TL;DR Stop making blanket statements about “how you should deal with someone who’s depressed.” It’s not that fucking simple.
Of course it isn’t, but since I suspect quite a lot of this is directed at me:- I’m not saying how you should deal with someone who is depressed, I’m saying that Brett’s method isn’t it.
Being told you suck is not going to help most people, to the extent that even IF Sam was one of the tiny handful who it would help, it would be irresponsible of Brian to make a comic showing it working. Because what Brett says literally kills people.
The arc does seem to be moving in the ‘right’ direction, but it starting with the all too familiar “You suck” speech, and the approving comments, has left a very negative feeling for me.
I’m not exactly keeping score, but I’ve noticed a lot of people who actually have clinical depression coming down on Brett’s side, and then there’s you, all by your lonesome, saying that it doesn’t work that way and Brett should have kept out.
You know what’s worse than friends saying the wrong thing? Thinking that nobody fucking cares because someone like you got them too scared of saying the wrong thing, so they didn’t say anything. That’s what’s really irresponsible; trying to convince people that they should just mouth empty platitudes or stay the fuck away.
Speaking as someone with a history of major clinical depression, and a lifetime of MAJOR f***ing catastrophes, I would say you’re all right in a way. Some people DO simply get hit by more S*** in their lives. Some of those people cannot cope with that. What you have to do in that case, what I had to do (and still have to relearn on almost a day by day basis) is what Brett said and “Grow Some!” The trouble is that that is very hard to hear, and almost as hard to do; and that’s what’s happening in this episode. Sam is very fortunate to have good friends who will talk honestly to him, and will hopefully have patience with him. Being around depressed people is very hard work, and talking them back into some kind of approximation of sanity is even harder.
I may be lost in the therapy session here, but I hope we get back to the gaming part of this comic soon. I love the characters, but I don’t read this to watch the off-the-rails stuff about their issues. Plenty of comics out there offering counseling and emotive stories. The sooner we get back to actual adventure and the character’s reactions in the adventure, the sooner I stop popping in, skimming the content, then moving on. You can all call me insensitive, if you like, but I’m just putting up my view and what I enjoy about this comic. I suspect I’m not alone.
I…I’m terrible at this kind of thing…but if you or someone you know is having issues, and you think they or you might hurt yourself, please take it from a former medic: Get help.
National Suicide Hotline number is 1 (800) 273-8255
24 hours a day 7 days a week.
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HOVER-TEXT: With some strips, a hover-text joke would feel tacky. This is one of them.
Well everybody, time to hop aboard the feels train! 🙁
Ouch.
This is one of the those topics that needs to be talked about and so rarely is. Thanks tackling something that is scary as hell.
I’m looking forward to see how this develops. I know what Bret says is technically right. But I myself find that being told “you suck and you need to stop being a miserable looser” rarely helps and even makes it worse for me. There is probably time and place for that kind of “tough love”, but people are different and react differently.
Also I just realise I have a friend who is a bit of a Brett (sans the serious a-hole history).
Yep. Especially for people whose lives have been orientated around others (GM’s, or Dad’s who’ve worked hard when their wives MLCrisis hits).
If you’re used to cruising for support and get the recognition from society it is just a matter of “move on”. But if you’re not one of those people, shit gets painful when you realise there’s no prize at the bottom of the crisps bag.
Ooooo! Badass backstory montage scene
That hit a little close to home for me.
Except Brett didn’t say he’s a wreck and needs help. Brett said he was tired of Sam’s reactions to things and that Sam needed to magically make it better *because Sam wouldn’t be giving Brian his games anymore*. Brett might be technically right but he’s backasswards when it comes to how to do anything for Sam. In the words of Z. Beeeblebrox, “So: ten points for style, minus several million for brains, baby.”
Let’s hope Jeannie can do better.
He did. The Depressed Mind does not work the same way as the Rational mind. Everything Brett said to sam is “you suck, you suck you suck you suck and you are making it worse for everyone around you, you little wuss”.
Brett’s not wrong that Sam needs to fix problems. His way of doing so was utterly wrong.
That wasn’t even remotely what Brett said. The only mention of gaming he made was that it was Sam’s greatest love (you going to deny that?). And his idea of “magically making it better” (your words) was “talk to someone” (his words). Whether he meant his friends, or a professional, neither of those count as “magically making it better”. He specifically called Sam out on expecting things to magically get better!
Thank you for doing this. You are helping.
To be fair, Sam’s got a point. Brett really has no standing whatsoever in telling him what he needs to do to get better.
So who does have that standing, if not his closest friend?
Wow. Heavy. It’s the strips like these that make me realize how little we know about the lives of the group when they’re not at the gaming table (other than Brett at this point). I love the gag strips and the roleplaying sessions, but I really hope we can see more comics about the characters’ families and their childhoods somewhere down the line.
Begs the question:
How much do YOU know about the people around YOUR tables…?
“Who does Brett think he is telling me how to live?” …um you mean other then the ultimate arbitrator of good an evil on the mortal coil cause you know HE’S SANTA
If you need help please call: 1-800-273-8255
There should be a way to upvote things here, because this requires all the upvotes.
Here comes the free ride on the guilt trip. All abooooooard.
For those hating on Brett for his insensitivity in last comic…I kinda feel like Brett knew he was inadequate for the “real-talk” portion of helping Sam, and that Jeanie was the one who could help – which is why he went full dickmode to make Sam angry enough for Jennie to break through the self-pity.
If Brett knew he was inadequete to do so, then he should have shut the hell up.
Thing is, how Brett reacted is NORMAL. It’s how people react to depressives, time and time again. Because people think all a depressed person needs to do is pull themselves together. Because if you aren’t depressed, it’s that easy. It’s not if you are depressed, and all being told that does if you ARE depressed is make things worse.
honestly, yes i think brett could have handled that much better, but i dont think ges completely wrong. sam has shown time and again that when things o wrong he retreats into himself, heaps all the blame on himself, and shuts people out. Remember jeanie? sam got so pissed that he killed off their characters and punished them in the game that they all love for it. Brett is trying for the swift kick in the butt approach, but the thing is is that is his only way of dealing with such things. Hes been shown as not being well equipped to talk about his feelings, so is trying to get through to sam via at least his anger at brett. I agree that brett is not well suited to this, but sam is also very content to keep up his cycle and turn away, letting his anger and self-depreciation control him. speaking as someone who is currently still dealing with depression similar to what sam is going through i can say firsthand that that is how ive reacted in the past and that it is very hard work climbing back up, but i wish that i had a guy like brett who at least was trying like that to help. I am more on my own
Brian, this is the reason I can’t get this D20 Monkey off my back. This storyline took an entirely different direction that what I expected, but in a way that still stays true to the characters. Great job.
Go get some tacos, man. You earned them.
Thing is, I’ve been on Sam’s side of things… I’ve had chronic depression and thoughts of suicide since I was six, and actually attempted it once. It’s a dark place, and I’ve been getting better recently with the support and help of friends and my husband.
The main thing is, I would have MUCH preferred Brett’s approach to me being depressed then what I mostly got; which was people trying to offer platitudes and ‘try smiling, you’ll feel better’, and all of the empty NONSENSE people spout when they’re trying to be ‘nice’ to depressed people.
They might think it helps, but all it does is show a lack of empathy. Sympathy =/= empathy, and to someone in my state, it was just empty words said to make the person feel better without actually giving a shit about the actual problem. Brett may be rude as all hell, but his words still show that he actually DOES give a damn, which to me is WAY more important.
A really good video on summarizing sympathy vs empathy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Evwgu369Jw
Nicely said. Thank you.
I don’t know if I’m depressed or not, but when I do manage to think about setting goals for my life, something the motivates one to look forward to, and work towards, a worthwhile reward, I can’t think of any definite plans since I was in high school. I hold a steady job, have friends and family, enjoy fun things like games, movies, (some) meals, conversation, stories (like d20monkey!) and helping others, but it seems as though I’m barely ‘treading water’ instead of enjoying “my life” as I’d hoped it would be 20+ years ago.
I don’t know why I can’t seem to set goals, or why someone (me) with so much to be thankful for should be so easily discouraged and unmotivated, particularly when there is potential (imagined or real, as I was always told growing up) for something more fulfilling, like having a wife & kids and a career that I enjoy (like our gracious host has, tough as it might be at times).
Maybe I’m just lazy. Maybe I’m depressed. Maybe I spend too much time empathizing and too little time focusing on self-improvement. A lot of maybes, a lot of questions, but too few answers that you’d think someone with my (supposed) intelligence could figure out.
Rambling aside, and more on-topic, I really appreciate how much life Brian puts into these characters, and that he deals with tough subjects in the story so us readers can talk about it. Even if I don’t comment much (though I really should sometimes), I find a great deal of value and, sometimes, cathartic feeling, in reading the strip and the comments from other readers.
For whatever it’s worth, Brian, your project, hobby, life’s work, or however d20monkey should be classified so that those of us without your courage, dedication, skill and talent can relate to it in a qualitative manner, is complete success in my book. Thank you so much for sharing it, and yourself, with us.
You pretty much just described exactly how my life is – although my timeline is admittedly a little shorter, as 20+ years ago I would’ve just started elementary school and plans for life basically boiled down to; “what are we having for dinner when I get home” and “how do I avoid getting picked on at school today”. :p
Anyways, I just wanted to say: I know the feeling.
Going away now ;p
It seems a number of folks around here know the feeling, so I guess that means we’re in good company, as it were. 😉
As for my timeline, if I had to guess, I’m closer to Brian’s age than most, which seems typical for my online “haunts” these days. Not sure what that means, but I don’t need anything else to over analyze, either. 🙂
Smile Smile It Gets Better doesn’t help, because even if it WAS true (which..uh..it isn’t) there’s no way a depressed person will believe it.
But neither is “you suck and everyone else is better at dealing with stuff than you”, which is what Brett’s first speech is summed up as.
I’ve been on all three sides of depression – personal, helping others as a friend, and dealing with it as a professional. Brett is techincally correct – Sam has a pattern, it’s self destructive, and it needs to stop. It’s also utterly in his character that he’d react that way, and one of the normal responses from Frustrated Friends.
It’s not helpful.
I think one of the things we can read from the comments on this arc is that everyone deals with depression differently, and something that might snap one person out of it will only drive another deeper down the rabbit hole.
What got me out of my own depression was a conversation with my dad. He’s always been a really proud man, and I still remember his expression when he told me he wanted to help me but didn’t know how, and begged me to talk to someone. That was when everything sort of clicked – I realized I wasn’t getting better on my own, and sought therapy.
That approach worked great for me, but there’s no way it’d work for everyone.
TL;DR Stop making blanket statements about “how you should deal with someone who’s depressed.” It’s not that fucking simple.
Of course it isn’t, but since I suspect quite a lot of this is directed at me:- I’m not saying how you should deal with someone who is depressed, I’m saying that Brett’s method isn’t it.
Being told you suck is not going to help most people, to the extent that even IF Sam was one of the tiny handful who it would help, it would be irresponsible of Brian to make a comic showing it working. Because what Brett says literally kills people.
The arc does seem to be moving in the ‘right’ direction, but it starting with the all too familiar “You suck” speech, and the approving comments, has left a very negative feeling for me.
I’m not exactly keeping score, but I’ve noticed a lot of people who actually have clinical depression coming down on Brett’s side, and then there’s you, all by your lonesome, saying that it doesn’t work that way and Brett should have kept out.
You know what’s worse than friends saying the wrong thing? Thinking that nobody fucking cares because someone like you got them too scared of saying the wrong thing, so they didn’t say anything. That’s what’s really irresponsible; trying to convince people that they should just mouth empty platitudes or stay the fuck away.
Speaking as someone with a history of major clinical depression, and a lifetime of MAJOR f***ing catastrophes, I would say you’re all right in a way. Some people DO simply get hit by more S*** in their lives. Some of those people cannot cope with that. What you have to do in that case, what I had to do (and still have to relearn on almost a day by day basis) is what Brett said and “Grow Some!” The trouble is that that is very hard to hear, and almost as hard to do; and that’s what’s happening in this episode. Sam is very fortunate to have good friends who will talk honestly to him, and will hopefully have patience with him. Being around depressed people is very hard work, and talking them back into some kind of approximation of sanity is even harder.
I may be lost in the therapy session here, but I hope we get back to the gaming part of this comic soon. I love the characters, but I don’t read this to watch the off-the-rails stuff about their issues. Plenty of comics out there offering counseling and emotive stories. The sooner we get back to actual adventure and the character’s reactions in the adventure, the sooner I stop popping in, skimming the content, then moving on. You can all call me insensitive, if you like, but I’m just putting up my view and what I enjoy about this comic. I suspect I’m not alone.
I…I’m terrible at this kind of thing…but if you or someone you know is having issues, and you think they or you might hurt yourself, please take it from a former medic: Get help.
National Suicide Hotline number is 1 (800) 273-8255
24 hours a day 7 days a week.