Limit Break-ing Point
With this strip we start to see where Sam’s game is deviating from traditional D&D.
I am a huge fan of the Final Fantasy series and while Natural 20’s are awesome, I love the idea of taking that idea and turning up the volume a little bit with each character rocking a critical maneuver that, admittedly, is a little bit broken.
I’m sure some will disagree with that mindset. Brett does and we’ll see what comes of it on Wednesday. I’d also stress that folks give this a little time to play out. I am coming at this as Sam’s first real attempt to create something. Of course it will be a little rough around the edges at first. Patience… Patience.
Also, I’d like to wish all of the hard working GMs out there a happy GM’s Day today. I hope your players wish you one as well and possibly thank you with tokens of appreciation (food, presents, sexual favors, etc.)
(Oh, in case some folks are wondering, Vella’s appearance will return to normal after her turn ends)
Aw, fuck you Brett!
Exactly. Disagree if you like, but address it post-game with the GM, not WHILE ANOTHER PLAYER IS HAVING A RAD TIME IN THE SPOTLIGHT, BRETT YOU BLINKERED ASS.
agree, shut the fuck up and ask about it later, doing anything else just ruins the game and makes the naysayer in question sound like a whiny little wuss.
I have done this before with my players in a 4e game. It was really well received. Bret just seems like a party pooper.
Karthun…I want to go to there. This game and setting is looking awesome I can’t wait to see more. Makes me itch to run another D&D game.
Yes!
Awesome idea!
Frankly, I would do something along the lines of adding what you rolled on the die until you reach a certain number. Perhaps 50 or 100. It makes “limit breaks” that much more special and unique, while preserving the sanctity of the Critical Hit.
so unless your table has a propensity for rolling 20s, you never have to worry about remembering the rules for the special stuff?
That assumes players remember the rules at all. /channelangrydm
That would require a whole load of extra bookkeeping, though. On every attack you roll. Adding it to nat. 20s doesn’t add any more overhead the rest of the time.
My players are used to strange stuff I pull… but I have my own Brett who’s constantly telling me that stuff isn’t allowed to work that way. In my current game, PCs (even level 1 PCs) are an order of magnitude more powerful than random people. But he’s so used to normals being just a little worse than level 1s that he can’t wrap his mind around the change. And he keeps griping… and I keep ignoring his complaints, because he’s still having a good time when he stops complaining and actually plays the game. THat’s how you deal with Bretts. You say “Will the changes be fun to play with?” So far I’ve never had a player be able to straight faced tell me no, not after giving the changes a chance.
Okay, I would play the hell out of this game in a heartbeat. Please tell me this is going to go the direction of Hackmaster…
hackmaster?
or even Hackmad20
Well, as cool as the game seems to be in general (I love the setting), that IS a bit of an amateurishly designed mechanic. In a dice-driven game, there’s already plenty that’s outside the ability of the players to control, and adding in supermoves that only happen if you’re lucky is a bit of insult added to the injury. It’s a good idea, generally, to maximize player agency. If the dice are going to decide my actions for me, why would I even be there? It’s the same reason why I won’t use rolled stats anymore. I’m the one playing, my job is to decide who my character is, and what he’s trying to do. The dice’s job is to tell me whether it works or not. Rolled stats and overly randomized mechanics let the dice do my job, which sucks.
At least, anyways, it sucks for me.
It also doesn’t help that it’s an additional unbalancing factor in D&D, which is already hideously unbalanced. Maybe if they were playing a game that didn’t implode hilariously at the slightest prodding, but not D&D.
I do like the whole “wacky super attacks” idea, though. Just not as they’re being described here.
“I totally agree. When the dice suddenly make one player left out because they just don’t want to work with them, that player is having less fun. Less fun for any player is bad. I actually implemented a system to reduce the number of critical hits, but increase the control over them.”
“For those curious, players got ‘critical points’ which they could spend. I increased the crit range, to allow them more control over when they got critical hits, but everyone was limited. It also minimized any semblance of cheating, but without being forced to call someone a cheater.”
“I should amend that to say, less fun for any player due to something out of their control is never okay.”
Fair points, all. I will say this to you both though: Be patient.
I’m writing this from Sam’s perspective and there will be a few bumps along the way.
i like this idea better than my first DM’s rule for crits (you had to roll 2 natural 20’s in a row wich was impossible so no one ever did crit damage)
matter of fact this give me idea for a home brew i have rules for
I can’t wait to see more critical maneuvers! I suppose this could be called broken, but without seeing the other parts of the game system, that’s a premature statement.
i ran a special campaign a few years ago where everyone declared the player cast broken, up until the first encounter, where, because they hadn’t bothered to go past the ‘yeah all that stuff is bullshit’ phase, over half the party got wiped by two very early-level monsters.
when the ‘broken bullshit’ mechanics are usable by anything in the game, someone who doesn’t pay heed to those mechanics is going to get their clock cleaned every single time.
Word up. Frankly I’m seeing a bunch of players, who since their starting this game form scratch are probably low level, up against horrors that should not be form beyond the veil of what we call reality. Oh and their down the wizard. They need all the help they can get.
I love this mechanic and both it and the campaign setting are proving to be much needed inspirations in my own gaming.
Much thanks Mr. Patterson.
I am happy to help, Daniel. I love to talk about games, Karthun, and different mechanic ideas. Sure, some people will hate what I do but I’m okay with that. If folks can take some inspiration from this comic for their own campaigns then I call it a huge victory.
do you run karthun games? do you roll20.net? I’m curious now…
Critical Maneuvers sound awesome, I’d just be worried about how often they’re allowed. If they’re a once-a-day deal or even just once-an-encounter I don’t see a problem, but if they happened every single time someone got a natural 20, any challenge in combat could fall apart if the dice gods were feeling generous.
I kind of like the idea that a few good rolls could decimate an encounter. It would give the players a feeling of epicness, and a good story to reminisce about.
Everyone loves the stories about how a party decimated a dragon in the first round.
Second that.
I remember one campaign years back. Our party had a mission guarding a caravan. Over the course of the mission, we one shot-ed both a Wizard, and a Necromancer of superior level, and got rolled by the peasant guards. The oxen in the caravan finished off the guards, and made it to town by themselves while we waited for the caster to regain consciousness and heal out broken forms.
It still remains the most famous combat among our group- you either rolled a natural 20 or fumbled, fuck the other numbers.
Seems easy to break. With this mechanic in Karthun, I think I’d duel-wield scimitars and take Improved Critical as soon as possible. At level 6, based on some probability calculations, I have a 75.99% Chance of scoring a Critical Maneuver each round.
It’s an interesting idea… but I think it might need a bit of balancing to prevent the player characters from… doing what players do best and breaking everything as best as they can.
HAHA! Just wait and see.
To be fair, it’s not clear whether it triggers only on natural 20s or on all crit threats. But yeah, same thought.
The other question, of course, is “Do monsters have these too?”
if it were my table, yes. yes they would. and they would be quite the problem.
“It’s an interesting idea… but I think it might need a bit of balancing to prevent the player characters from… doing what players do best and breaking everything as best as they can.”
Pretty much how I feel about it, but looking forward to how you balance it out Brian.
Enter the bitching of Brett, and the hilarious smack-down to follow. Love this arc.
Happy DM’s Day to you too! May all your hits be TPKs.
A) The scene where she turns into an Iron Creature and start to pummel the creatures was incredible awesome.
But, yeah, this mechanic really needs to change. Too much power too randomly with too much rolls.
B)Are they playing a new game or it’s a D&D setting with especial rules?
totally new setting with its own rules.
and random blasts of power and overkill would equal style xp plus we have no idea what the encounters are like yet, nor do they.
for all they know, these guys are going to have some really sick regenerative tricks up their sleeves.
Our group is usually a little favor in a little over powering in our crits and special moves/tactics.
Although my current GM for Pathfinder is an Uber Final Fantasy nut. So we get to try out all kinds of outrageous things and see if we survive.
Although it might have broken the flow a bit, I would have loved to have seen Mel’s “Hello Critty” dice for that 20. Not even a close up, just little pink bits on the table would have been fine.
Full-disclosure: I agree and I really wanted to make it happen but I tinkered a bit and ultimately decided to keep it off camera. Don’t worry though, you’ll see the Critty dice again soon.
Regardless of game mechanics being great or broken, rules lawyers suck the fun right out of any game.
Seems like an interesting idea to me. I can’t wait to see where it goes from here.
Most of the time I like Brett, but some one needs to punch him right in the mouth. Lets face it sometimes players want and need to feel like Big Damn Heroes.
Rules lawyers or nay sayers, the “That’s not how it would happen…” kinds of folks do nothing but bring the game down.
Well said, Steve.