Dungeon Run: More Than a Penny Drops
Chapter: Comics, Season Five
I’m just going to leave this one here and wish you all a happy Labor Day weekend.
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I’m just going to leave this one here and wish you all a happy Labor Day weekend.
Comments are closed.
HOVER-TEXT: Okay Dallas, go ahead and make a save vs. Dove splatter
“20. I point and laugh as a Standard Action.”
Bout damn time!
Seriously? I’ve been on the edge of my seat all day today with my game group, wondering what would happen with this!
Anyone but Dove.
I pray to the God of the Dice that Philip Dove is done.
I can only imagine him calling this all a farce and trying to claim the GM was playing favorites.
Dove has already heard Sam’s threats (specifically, that if Dove raises a stink or acts like anything other than a gentleman for the rest of the game, Sam and his dad would make sure that Dove is blacklisted from just about every tabletop game in existence). He already rolled miracles the entire game. His luck ran out, and his character died as a result. If Dove ever wants to play anything with d20s and a good GM again, he will accept his death and leave in peace.
Considering how he’s been rolling in this entire game, I’d even go so far as to suggest he’s using a spindown d20. He seems exactly the kind of excrement mop to use one of those spiralled terrors.
Has this setting been put out for the public? This is seriously interesting and I’d like a crack at it.
He’s working on it. And I, for one, am gonna buy the HELL out of this setting. Here’s hoping it’s easily convertible to pathfinder.
I’m hoping as much for Savage Worlds.
http://great-extensions.com/product-images/XJ-1000%27s.png
And that’s a hit! I’m just gonna go ahead and roll for damage now…
Huh, why did that reply to you? I put it in the normal comments. Meh.
That was satisfying
Satisfying!
Damn. Quick and to the point. I wonder if that’s the only order of business The Chain Lord has here. Beautiful work on him btw. The faces on the shoulders was a good choice.
Also, “Can I borrow some D12s? I don’t have enough.” HA! Dove is a stain on the stone now.
It might not give a damn about Philip, but he did have a point. There’s a big dragon trying to cheat the Mother out of its, and several other, souls.
Forgot to mention in discussing the Chain Lord’s resistances earlier today he also has 100% immunity to Bulls**t
do they actually make d125’s?
oh d12’s… my bad.
I made the samemistake
As did I. If anything, it made the whole scenario funnier xD
YESSSS!!!! WOOHOO wicked epic dude!!!
Never try to bargain with a three headed force of pure destruction.
Those, my friends, are not his heads… Those are his shoulder pads.
Bravo, sir, that thing is deeply unsettling.
Those aren’t shoulder pads. Those are its shoulders. It’s a horrible, necromantic golem stitched together with random parts in random spots.
It’s AWESOME!
The Chain Lord is indeed a necromantic golem, made out of three Knights who tried to reason with the Mother. It did not end well.
And thus, a new paint scheme has been created……
As much as I hate Dove and wanted to see his character die, I kinda feel bad for him.
I don’t! 😀
Ditto! Do not feel sorry for an arrogant douche bag, he would never feel anything but contempt for you.
Haw te hah hahaha I wish Brett was there to witness that. Btw how many D12’s did you have to roll on damage? Rolling 2 to 3 d12’s is bad enuff. Dove you’re flesh is dead and the hit was so hard it even effed up your soul. something to delver to the mother.
he swore his service to a being trying to cheat death, he can’t expect the Mother to not know this.
Quick, grab his shoes!
I approve.
Whoa! Never before has a splorching sound been so sweet. But I wonder, how can the Chain Lord have attacked Dove? Isn’t his business collecting escaped dead souls? Could it be that Dallas sacrificed her soul in order to have Dove smashed?
Also, the Chain Lord better wash that cage with some Lysol when gets back home. Wouldn’t want to pollute the Underworld with Dove’s remains…
Technically, all souls probably belong to Her. I’d say it’s more “serving the will of a necromantic being”.
Possibly The Mother knows of the collaboration between Dove and Tyraxion, and now that Tyraxion has claimed even more souls, The Chain Lord has an incentive to bring the souls back to The Mother.
It must be because I’m a big softie, because as much as Dove has behaved terribly in every appearance in this comic, and as much as I want Dallas to win the tournament, I feel pretty bad for Dove now.
(It’s probably because getting disregarded, as it appears Dove has been, is one of my pet peeves. If nothing else, Sam could have reminded him, immediately before the smushing began, that the Chain Lord doesn’t do talky stuff.)
This probably means Dallas will win by virtue of having the corpse closest to the Heart at the end of the run.
Dove could still win, his gore may have been splattered on the heart.
By the rules, I think it might have to be hand gore, so that he’s the first to get his hands on (or smeared all over) the Heart.
I’ve never *ever* met a GM that’ll warn you that your plan to double-backstab another player, and screw over your magical patron who you just aligned yourself with, is a bad idea. This is like the roll to lose your paladin powers ^5. What would a warning have even done? “Yes, that other player you’re trying to screw over summoned a big thing. No, it is not your friend”.
Yup, no GM I ever gamed with since I was 17 on has ever given warning to anyone in any kind of situation like that. I’m 45 now, that’s a lot of years and a lot of GM’s. Many of them even had “Idiot” or “Damn Fool” clauses in their games from the get go. By that I mean they told us from the get go that if you decide to play an obnoxious, back stabbing jackass, whether behind the scenes or not, to not bitch when and if you get your comeuppance.
The way my longest running GM (and husband, yup, I married my GM) put it was “Don’t come whining to me if you do something stupid or evil and your character gets killed for it, deal with your own shit”.
It’s not a warning if it’s too late for you to change your action; all he’s saying is that Sam didn’t even announce the Chain Lord’s attack, instead literally rolling over Phil. He’s suggesting that Sam should have said something like “You’ve got his attention, but not in a good way. Rolling to-hit.” beforehand.
oooo..thats gotta smart…and im willing to bet too, there’s also a huge +str damage modifier in there too. this said. there’s still no guarantee that Dallas will be immune to the Chain Lord, just that she prayed, the chain lord came, maybe now she’ll have to deal with both the Chain lord AND Ultraxion.
I have to say, i really am enjoying the creature designs for Karthun, and i really hope that this is a real setting in development. if it is, and i havent noticed untill now. i humbly apologize.
i don’t think she has to be immune. Dove was offed for being the escapee/Evil Dragon’s”first Herald” and as truely powerful as it is i’ll bet it is real single minded. Do not think it will care about Dallas and it will simply plow into the coin-dragon
It is! Brian has announced a partnership with The Other Tracy (Exploding Rogue Studios), and their first project is going to be Karthun (with a KS coming soon!…ish?)
Ding-dong, the Dove is dead, the Wicked Dove, the mean-ole Dove. Ding-Dong, the Wicked Dove is dead!
So love your comment! 😀
I want Amy to sing this.
I can only assume that, in Panel 1, Dallas is the one saying, “Blessed be the Will of the Mother of the Dead!” and therefore, that this is exactly what she prayed for to happen.
I’d say it’s still coming from Dove, he is trying to schmooze his way out of this situation, after all. He’s just trying to schmooze the wrong necromantic minion of a divine-being-turned-queen-of-the-dead. Which is all of them.
I kind of expected a Gallagher reference.
I totally agree! Perhaps in Karthun Gallagher was a knight of the Mother?
Damn Brian, that ending was sweet! I’m pretty sure Dove’s mother felt that one!
I had the scale on the drawings wrong. That thing is a LOT bigger than I thought.
For some reason I thought it was man-size.
As did I. Given what it was made from I thought it was like Goro(Mortal Kombat) sized.
Brian, is there any chance you could put the Chain Lord in a vertical panel at some point? I’m trying to gauge what it looks like by the size of its iron maiden and its relationship to Dove, but he’s smeared all over the floor and I can’t quite get the scale.
Dove actually tried to smooth talk a fanatical zombie construct into not turning it into a paste… and to redirect him on the Dracolich he had just pledged allegiance to.
Real smart! This way even if he managed to survive the fight with the chain lord he would have got a pissed Dracolich to fight. And even if he had succesfully redirected the chain lord on Tyraxion I’m betting a friggin’ DRACOLICHE his actually one of the being who can give the chain lord a run for his money… oh probably not forever, but on the first fight sure, so another outcome with a pissed (maybe wounded but not neccesarily) dracolich. And even if the Chain Lord managed to kill Tyraxion the collateral damages of the fight would probably be indiscriminate enough that he would have died or have been wounded enough for Dallas to finish him.
He should have attacked the thing directly, Tyraxion may have helped… after all he IS a being cheating death, and the chain lord IS sent to retriève souls escaping death. At worst yell something like “The mother will never have Lord Tiraxion’s soul!” while burying the abomination under lava, to make it clear that noI’mnotjusttryingtosavemyself.
I don’t feel sorry for Dove, not at all, he acted like a jerk in character AND out of character. I’ve played with jerks in game, it can be fun, especially when you can finally give them their comeuppance and they have to make another character even when the MJ tells you “Errr you weren’t supposed to let him be executed, I thought you would testify in his favour not againt him… oh well”. But being a jerk to the players? It’s not acceptable.
Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!
HUZZAHHHH!
Ahahahaha, tragic.
hehehe, love the look on Dove’s face. I wonder if he’s gonna go ape-shit and start table flipping. >:3
Aww yiss
I bring you love. And d12s.
Hey Dove how’s the charming of a mindless creature working out? Dove? Dove?
Soooo satisfying. Like picking a scab, getting a backscratch, popping a zit and cracking your neck all at the same time.
And I totally get why that combo of things is so satisfying lmao.
Is it possible for a character to be a sentient undead (in service to the Mother) in Karthun?
I think that’s exactly what this guy is.
A good gm might allow it. Technically, after all, if you’re in service to her she does own your soul. Of course, I say this having not read the book that we haven’t received yet.
To the best of my knowledge, the only D&D god of death that ever flat out forbid necromancy is Kelemvor.
You forget about The Raven Queen from 4e. She abhors undead as far as i can remember.
Also for Pathfinder, Pharasma, the Goddess of Death and Prophecy, also abhors Undead. The first undead – the Goddess Urugatha – became so by fleeing from the Boneyard before her soul could be Judged by Pharasma.
I just want to savor that last panel of Dove’s face. There is nothing better than seeing a total douche nozzle like Dove get what’s coming to him.
Oh look, a railroad. Sorry, while I detest Dove, I have to admit this entire end-game feels off. Let alone fast-talking the undead demon-dragon, divine intervention isn’t really something that happens in most cases. You’re also left with the question of what happens to Dallas for having invoked such a dread entity?
I don’t exactly like the idea of having a divine intervention fighting the boss-monster in a tournament. It kind of defeats the purpose.
A friend of mine also had a couple of thoughts:
1. Dove got no shot at it. He’s Tyraxian’s herald, but he doesn’t get any initiative enhancements?
2. This isn’t just divine intervention, this is divine intervention IN TOURNEY PLAY.
3. It was a foregone conclusion he was going to lose after how he treated the GM’s girlfriend. But by handling this behind the DM screen, you have a player who could legitimately claim the game was fixed by the GM to make him lose.
4. Tyraxian had already beaten the Mother of the Dead. How is her Avatar going to stand a chance? (Me again – I disagree on this part in that “finding a way to cheat death” doesn’t equal “beat the Goddess of Death.”)
Me again. Personally, I think it’s a pity that we didn’t go a different route with Dove fighting with Dallas to defeat T, and either dying while doing so, or being backstabbed by Dallas at the end. It would have made for a much more interesting ending and allowed an antagonistic character to show some growth.
Jesus…
The wonderful thing about webcomics is that we are allowed to read them and have our own interpretation of events. You may not agree, but my view is as valid as yours, and criticism of the comic or story is a valid thing so long as there are no personal attacks or slights on the cartoonist.
Touchy much?
Actually, no. I’m a bit of an introvert in real life so unless you’re good friends I tend to avoid physical contact.
I am loving the introvert remark vs the ‘touchy much’ comment. But I also thought you were being fairly calm and neutral, personally. And I agree. 😀
I think all those concerns however, could be cleared up with Dallas’ note. I have a theory but I’m not going to spoil it.
I feel as though it’s not divine intervention if Dallas is going to lose as well. The DM has, throughout the comic, shown his ability to be fair and his comments earlier were to that tune. I don’t think Dallas could call upon the Chain Lord without paying an ultimate price herself. I also don’t see the DM just pulling this out of his ass to spite Dove. That would make him as bad as Dove and they’re all better than that.
You and your friend seemed convinced this is some evil DM against Dove. I disagree. And I hope next week’s story shows that.
Actually, my thought is that at this point Dallas’s character has to die as well. If she wins the tournament then my friend’s argument is valid as are my concerns. There is a price for summoning a bigger fish, after all.
As for Sam being an evil GM? He has shown that he’s not afraid of fudging a roll when it is required. He has my respect for that in that the point of the game is to have fun. Fudging a roll to keep someone alive helps keep things fun. I know a number of GMs who disagree on this point. That said, if I were running a Pathfinder Society event, I’d not fudge a roll unless a TPK was about to ensue.
Fair enough! I misread your post and for that I apologize.
I agree. Dallas probably is going to die and lose the dungeon run as well. I don’t really see any way to avoid that given calling upon the Mother.
Again, sorry for misinterpreting you!
No worries. The Internet is not exactly the best media for communication. Ironic seeing that those of us who have trouble verbalizing (or have no idea how to be concise and go on forever like myself) utilize it to otherwise communicate. 😉
(snip)
1. Dove got no shot at it. He’s Tyraxian’s herald, but he doesn’t get any initiative enhancements?
(snip)
The thing is, he didn’t even try. He’s got what TV Tropes (and others) call CBD – “Chronic Backstabbing Disorder.” Instead of doing his best to flex his newly-granted powers, he forswore them, and his new master, in an effort to charm a monster that’s quite single-minded (if it has a mind at all.)
In this one case, it would have been good to see if Sam had said “Dove, it’s your action. What do you do?” – If trying to fast-talk his way past the zombie-lord amalgam was Dove’s action? Then that’s one thing (though my friend probably would disagree – seeing he’s one of my players and would feel “talking is a free action” to try to fast-talk himself through an encounter… well, I’m sure many readers would support a player who uses roleplay instead of combat to get through the game).
The way it’s portrayed, it seems almost arbitrary. He’s not even allowed to finish his action before he’s attacked and killed.
Problem with talking being a free action is it would mean you can seduce/bargain/whatever every monster before they even get their weapon out, unrealistic. Talking for the roleplay can be a free action, but talking your way out of problems isn’t. If you try to convince a guard to let you pass before an ennemy of yours catch up to you and kills you it’s going to take longer than blugeonning him by surprise and taking his keys.
Sam allowed Dove to fast-talk Tyraxion because it was possible, he had enough time, Tyraxion could be sensible to it and Dove had to make a skill roll. The chain lord is a zombie construct, Dove tried the same action but Sam didn’t bother asking him to roll because there was no way it would have worked. Also maybe Dove didn’t had initiative, he interrupted the GM description to act! Maybe if he had waited Sam would have said “Okey Tiraxion doesn’t move, it’s your turn”. Instead Dove just went ahead, I can picture Sam’s thought as “So you want initiative uh? To fast talk the undead construct? Well usually I would have told you to shut up because it’s Tyraxion’s turn but since you’re so eager… oh by the way, talking has no chance to work, not even on a natural twenty, so don’t bother rolling the dice”
To which I ask my players “is that going to be your action?” Thus letting them know they’re going for Bluff or Intimidate or the like. In the interest of speeding along the story (as this has been going on for a third of a year so far) I can see certain panels being cut (especially as each panel takes a little out of the cartoonist). But in this case it would have been a useful panel to include.
Mind you, I enjoy players who can roleplay. Despite his narcissistic tendencies, Dove seems to be a player who would be interesting to have in your group. Mind you, he’d probably be kicked out of my group within one game, seeing half of the players are women. But that doesn’t detract from the fact he is able to think fast on his feet and has been shown to be able to roleplay. (And being able to find non-combat solutions to fights is often a good thing. It prevents things from getting repetitive.)
He’s fighting the living avatar of the god of death. What reason does he have to auto-gain initiative, just because he’s the servant of a dracolich? Do clerics in vanilla get more initiative simply for serving Ao’, the creator of the universe?
If he were keeping it totally fair, he’d have also disallowed Dove from allying himself with the dracolich. Because in tournament play, befriending the major villain is also a pretty big no-no. He basically told Jason Voorhees that he’d like to be BFFs, and it worked.
I think you’re projecting like crazy when you say it was obvious he’d lose when he talked smack to the GM’s girlfriend. *nothing* we’ve seen thus far has pointed to anything like that being the case, and in fact we got a speech proving just how impartial the GM is.
Appropriate user name. 100% incorrect critique.
You misunderstand. It was not obvious that he’d lose because Sam would make sure he lost. It was obvious from a storytelling point of view that Dove would get his comeuppance because this is how the majority of stories like this work.
And I do agree with you that if I was running this, I’d have the undead demon-dragon snicker at Dove, say “accepted” and devour his soul or the like and leave him an NPC at best (and thus Dove would have lost). That Sam allowed for this and allowed for an easy Divine Intervention just says something about the game system allowing this rather than Sam himself. Dove found something that would come to his advantage in the rules and ran with it. Dallas likewise saw something in the rules that would counter Dove and went with that as well.
As for whether or not my critique is correct? That is the nature of critiques. They are a subjective beast.
Oh I’m more than sure the next few strips will be Dove pitching a fit over this and how he ‘didn’t even get to act’. Then Dallas’ note, and general Lore/etc. will destroy his argument most likely. Dallas will probably die somewhere along the line as well and we will have the ‘Anyone but Dove’ come to pass in a way that, while maybe not handled properly, will be protected by logic so airtight, if Dove were trapped within he’d choke on his own foul breath. Breath so foul it can only come from one with such a rotted pit replacing their soul.
TL;DR – JUSTICE!
Hopefully. The problem with webcomics is you do have to wait for the next update. 😉
And while my friend might disagree, I fully support Dove losing. What I don’t want is for Dallas to win; her actions were directly responsible for Amy’s character’s death and was contrary to the spirit and rule of that part of the game. Nor did her previous actions endear her to me; the best method of dealing with obnoxious players is cannon fodder to trip the traps. 😉 (Or in other words, much like Charlie, I’m not big on the PvP scene. I’ve always believed in more cooperative aspects of roleplaying, but to each their own.)
Agreed. Probably 99% chance we see ‘Anyone but Dove’ turn into ‘No One’ winning the run and a TPK as Dallas has to survive Tyraxion and the Chain Lord, or at the very least Tyraxion and then whatever price The Mother wants for this prayer being answered. The last 1%, after a struggle where Sam most likely pulls no punches, she ‘lays hands’ on Tyraxion’s heart before The Mother takes her soul and wins on a technicality. Which wouldn’t be the best of endings, but all the same within the rules of the run.
It could be argued that Dove forewent any initiative roll by initiating dialogue. Lots of DMs (myself included) would go ‘That’s what he wants to do? OK, cool. No need for an initiative roll. Let’s just play it as it is, given that if he’d won initiative he clearly intended to talk.’ and then played it as it went.
While I’m sure lots of us would rather Dallas have been the one to put Dove down this is the satisfying reversal of Dove’s tactic. He got to roll and pledge himself to the bad guy Dallas made her own pledge and Dove’s anchovy paste. There’s some satisfaction in watching Dove’s tactic used against him.
Yes, it could be argued that. The pacing of the update does make it feel a tad arbitrary but that’s just my own interpretation. And Sam’s GMing style isn’t mine so it’s like comparing peas to beans. Similar, but not the same. 😉 (Both delicious though, especially when picked fresh!)
Initiative aside, if this could be considered similar to a summons then it might very well act before anyone (including T) or it might be the very last action of the round.
Until we know what a high-powered devotee of The Mother can do, I’d say that this might be in the realm of possibilities.
Not having DM’d a D&D game in a while (Savage Worlds, mostly), I’d say that the fast talk/persuade would be his action. Free actions are usually short sentences, like “Bob, left flank” or “throw me”. I seriously doubt that the herald of of a daemon/lich would go faster than a direct extension of a Goddess anyhow. IF he would have tried to use his (maybe) new found powers Tyraxion MIGHT have helped him, or it might have just thought to itself, ” Welp, he pledged himself…he can tie this fellow up for me. I’m outie.”
Lastly, as others have pointed out, Sam has been nothing but fair. Even when he went Darkside for a bit.
True. I’m not familiar with the game system (and won’t buy it; I’m afraid I own something like a dozen game systems I’ve never used and really can’t afford to do that anymore! Sadly, the gaming group gets together once a month maybe so it’s been a year and a half since I started Reign of Winter and we’re not even halfway through book 2. Sorry! ^^;; )
I’d forgotten about Sam’s attempt at a TPK. Then again, I read over 100 individual webcomics a week so… but yeah. Sam’s fair. My view about Dove losing has nothing to do with Sam, but (as I’ve pointed out elsewhere) is a nature of the storytelling trope and the style of the comic (in that it’s at its core a humor/gaming comic, not a “grind your characters’ souls to dust and utter misery” comic). Dove’s defeat has everything to do with story karma, rather than the characters (or even author).
1: Yes, Dove did not get a shot at it.
Dove attempted to talk his way out of this situation, normally talking is a Free Action, but he’s attempting to reason or trick something (Diplomacy or Bluff, respectively), and that requires an action in combat (Diplomacy generally can’t be used in combat anyway, and it seems The Chain Lord is only interested in SPLORCH Heads, Get Souls). Depending on other attributes of The Chain Lord, it may be mindless, and therefore immune to reasoning. It is the abomination of three warriors who once followed The Mother before she was The Mother and they ventured out into The Dead to her Chapel to try and convince her to come back to the light, and failed.
Being the Herald of Tyraxion doesn’t necessarily grant Initiative bonuses, he may have gotten a few other powers, but it’s not clear what any of them were.
3: How? We have no evidence at all that Sam’s fudging die rolls against Dove. We do not know the contents of the note that Dallas passed to Sam, and don’t know what all the situation entailed.
4: The Champion of The Mother is neverending, it cannot be truly destroyed unless the one who kills it is of blood of one the 3 warriors who make up The Chain Lord, only then can their souls be freed from her control. If it’s killed, The Mother simply rebuilds him. Tyraxion has not “beaten” The Mother before, and all things fear death.
Small question on #4: Would the blood of one of the three warriors who made up the Chain Lord free all three, or would it only free that one soul and thus mean another descendent would need to strike down a weakened Chain Lord after this, and then one last one to free the final element? (Mind you, this isn’t something you can necessarily answer, but it still is an interesting thought experiment and makes for an interesting quest line.)
As for the benefits of being the Herald of Tyraxion… there is always the possibility it’s a title in name only. No magic, no boosts, no benefit except for not having been eaten.
Mind you, I was chatting on YIM with my friend when writing my half of this last night. So I can’t exactly answer the bullet points for him; it’s just my own interpretation. ^^;;
The text on the Chain Lord seems pretty clear; if one of their descendants beats it, the pillars souls are released.
You & your friend raise a number of points, most of which others have already responded to, but with posts containing as much as yours does, it feels wrong to not engage as well (in a civil manner, of course)
Until we see how the Chain Lords presence plays out regarding Tryaxion & Dallas I think it’s a bit early to call what happened a railroading. While dove did get smeared quite soundly, he did attempt the exact same tactic with CL as he did Tyrax. That had been his action in that encounter, and I can’t see fault with it being his initial action in the CL encounter either (even though from looking at the page about CL it was an impossible task) It is possible Sam fudged a roll (or outright lied about it) but given how invested he is with everything here, I honestly doubt it.
On the divine intervention aspect of things, if the mechanic is available, why not make use of it? We don’t know exactly what Dallas’ prayer was, just that the immediate result was CL coming to get some soul(s) She very well could have offered herself up in that prayer, and I can’t imagine the Mother not being tempted by a 2 for 1 (maybe 3, if she promised to assist with Tyrax first) deal. It may be gods interfering, but we’ve seen that gods (or their avatars or what have you) tend to interfere where they want. I always find that to be part of the fun/excitement of gaming.
While most of us wanted Dove to lose, I don’t think it was guaranteed by him offing Amy’s character (and his douchey behavior immediately following said offing) The talking to Sam gave both Dove & Dallas suggests to me that he was going to keep the game fair, regardless of the players’ feelings regarding each other. It may be the generally desired outcome, and what was initially planned, but I don’t think it was a “woo, Sam got revenge” type situation.
While Tyrax has managed to cheat death so far (the point you disagree with your friend on, “cheating death =/= beating death”) that raises the question if by being Tyraxs herald, can Dove get a roll from Tyrax for him to bring him back in some form (a bit out there, but I could see it being done, if CL isn’t in Tyrax’s grill) Again, it’s something we’ll see in the coming updates.
Fun last thought: while Doves character is dead, Dallas must still try to get to the heart. We never saw distances, but I’m assuming that dove got closer to Tyrax to make his plea, and probably got even closer once he was accepted. If Dallas doesn’t get the heart, & gets taken out (by whatever does the job) before she gets closer than Dove was, then Dove wins, despite getting offed before her (and what fun is finding the big baddie, summoning your own big baddie, and just ending the game there?) We’re going to see something involving Dallas’ character, Tyrax, and possibly CL before a winner it announced. She’ll not going down without a fight, and oh what a fight there’s going to be (I hope)
So, effectively, we have differing opinions/interpretations on some points, and what’s to come will (hopefully) clear up any confusion/misinterpretations anybody may have, and woo last boss.
As I mentioned earlier, my view as to Dove losing was not anything to do with Sam. Sam proved his impartiality and I approved of both his telling Dove that his behavior was inappropriate, and also of his warning Dallas not to gloat. (I’m not completely sure Dallas needed to be spoken to, but it did establish impartiality for Sam in doing so.)
My view is that the story itself and the tropes associated with it strongly suggested Dove would not be allowed to win with one exception: if he had chosen to work with Dallas in fighting T and had either not gloated about winning or had congratulated Dallas for her tactics. It would have provided for character growth for an antagonistic character which is always an interesting thing to view.
Seeing that didn’t happen and the comic tends toward humor more often than not, Dove winning doesn’t fit the thematic aspect of the comic as a whole, and his having his victory snatched away at the last moment is a part of that style of trope.
Very good post, by the way and I agree with a bit of it. Sorry I’m not commenting on each aspect of it, but I figured I’d just focus on that one element.
Gamers like Dove have to have a severly jarring event to actually change their ways. Even then they rarely take the opportunity because they find it difficult. Getting his character crushed might open up a lot of opportunity for growth.
Dove is a racist, homophobic, misogynistic rules lawyer. Why should he get a chance? Hell, why would anyone offer him one? He’s hateful.
And when was the last time an asshole like him became a better person after getting his ass kicked at a tabletop tournament?
Dallas has prayed to the Mother
She’s never satisfied
Her servant brings back the souls of another
This is what it sounds like…when Dove cries.
+1
+1 +1
Best Labor Day weekend ever!
You know, Dove is acting really similar to the ‘neutral evil’ PC from the alignment comic. Just saying.
I’ll just leave this here.
http://33.media.tumblr.com/1a847d926c065a5404376b7cd018d59d/tumblr_naroxpNZQe1sr4om8o1_250.gif
Needs more pelvic thrusting…but that’s just my opinion. 😛
Karma’s a bitch you fat bastard, how does it feel eh? How does it feel getting your cheeto eating ass served.
I fear for Dallas, now.
Where I come from we have a word for that.
OWNED.
While I like seeing how Dove gets what’s coming to him the whole episode feels kind of wrong to me. It seems to be an official tournament, but the DM rolls the dice in secret, and what Dallas is doing seems massively overpowered. Even though I guess that since she said that she would take Dove with him this is a suicide maneuver….
My only response as a GM is ‘wah’ and a a player ‘shit happens’. I think this outcome is perfectly in line with Karthun.
This is Dallas utilizing the lore of Karthun perfectly, in response to Dove’s powergaming. He has shown no respect to the lore of the game, and focused on exploiting the mechanics of the setting. This could possibly be the beginning of Dove’s redemption story as a gamer, as he begins to realize the min-max approach kills the souls of the hobby.
I agree and it’s not like it’s a Blbad thing that Phillip likes to Mind Max however the way he portrays Dove, Dove gets no sympathy from me. I actually got out my smallest violin in preparation for the GM hammer to fall when his mouth bounced that last check.
And yet, nobody seems to see an issue with Dove allying himself with a dracolich. Tit for tat, dude. Dove already played the “I’m breaking the setting” card.
HAHA DM SATISFACTION
All I have to say is.
“Can I borrow some D12s? I don’t have enough.”
Let this one SINK IN for a moment. A hardcore D&D nerd and devoted DM not having enough D12s means his massive dice bag is still not enough to calculate damage. This means we’re talking a damage roll that’s a bigger handful of dice to roll than a Star Wars D6 capital ship battle turbolaser battery firing upon a star destroyer.
The clatter of dice hitting the table would convince someone one room over that hail the size of golf balls is starting to fall outside.
There’s no easy way to “like” a comment here.
So I’m just gonna actually come out and say “I like this comment”.
A lot.
http://i.imgur.com/FYAQFQ5.jpg
Seems strange to see such a split here. I can see why some are upset that Dove didn’t even get to act, but if they were acting off the old initiative which is more than possible Sam may have rolled higher than Dove for the Chain Lord.
The other hand being the happiness of Dove getting smushed.
It’s not like Sam made a point of guaranteeing Dove’s death, when has he ever been actively unfair. Even when he went evil he wasn’t being unfair, he was just being extremely tough and power hungry. He has no reason to kill Dove for insulting Amy when he already had a discussion with him about chilling out.
I hope Dove actually thanks him, for legitimately showing him that roleplaying can be more engaging than rollplaying. Probably won’t happen but still.
Dove did act first he try to use diplomacy a standard action. It failed cause chain lord is a construct and dove was not its master
I would say he tried to Bluff his way out of this instead of Diplomacy, at least in the regards of “I humbly offer myself to serve The Mother of–“, we all know he only serves others when it suits him.
This time he’s just trying to schmooze his way out of this between the necromantic minion of a divine-being-turned-queen-of-the-dead, and the so far undying soul of an ancient dragon that’s possessed its own hoard.
Potentially, narratively, it could be said that The Chain Lord begun to swing the cage around in preparation for the attack when Dove was getting to the “Humbly offer myself” part.
What I would also like to know is the price Dallas had to pay to convince The Mother to send The Chain Lord out here, I’d really like to see what that note read.
Oh… oh my, yes. That face, Dove. I will cherish that look on your face from now until my dying days.
Also, I really don’t get why there are more than zero people saying they actually feel bad for the guy. He’s been nothing but a racist, sexist, homophobic, condescending smug jackass from the very first strip he appeared in. You reap what you sow; if he would’ve put his misogynistic bullshit aside and worked with Dallas to (re-)kill Tyraxion before going all PvP on her instead of selling himself out to the undead treasure-dragon, he might have actually had a shot at winning. It’s his own damn fault he wound up a greasy smear on Quasimodo’s chamberpot there.
I think they feel sorry for him more because of what he could have been, rather than what he currently is.
A satisfying end to Dove (“Eat cage, kiss-ass!”), but…
There is still the problem of Tyraxion. Throwing the Chain Lord into the mix will be… interesting, to say the least. Be interesting to know how Dallas gets out of this one (or at least if she survives).
There’s an easy way to tie it all up. Nobody wins. I’m sure Dallas would agree with me that it’d be preferable to Dove taking the cup.
True. And true.
I’m still of the mind that this is the first step in a redemption of Dove, as Sam and Dallas open his eyes to the error of his ways, leading up to the return of Larry, with the redemption of Dove being another trial of the Narrative.
Oooooh, I’d love to see this.
Yes it was.
I’m not a big fan of save-or-die, and it looks like that’s what this was. That said, Dove didn’t even get a chance to save. It seems mighty arbitrary that the prayer leads to an immediate appearance of an avatar followed by an unavoidable attack.
This wasn’t a save or die situation.
This is combat starting, The Chain Lord only has to hit Dove’s AC.
I was using “save-or-die” as shorthand for “you need to succeed on a roll, or you go from fully healthy to dead”. In this case, Dallas’ prayers (and Sam’s rolls) summoned an opponent which was significantly stronger than the PCs, and possibly the dragon, and which then acted before the dragon who was already in the combat.
Sam said he had to make a few rolls to see if the prayer worked, it was similar to Dove striking a deal likely.
I’m not going to defend Dove’s “single roll means that the dragon and I are best buddies”, but that roll meant that the dragon wasn’t killing him. Dallas’ action (and the DM’s rolls for her) directly led to a PC death. Given the AC that was hit and that the damage was enough to immediately kill him, it sounded like there was no chance for him to live.
For anyone who thinks that’s fair, why not have the dragon attack Dallas immediately after Dove succeeds on his roll?
Because he probably wanted his herald to prove his worth by getting the soul?
Because he’d already acted that round? He torched the other three characters, remember?
Don’t ask a rhetorical question if you won’t like the answer.
Yup, it’s from Dove. He’s trying to flip-flop and back stab, Tyraxion now in order to save his worthless life. Nice to see it didn’t work.
Hmm… I replied to this post but it put my reply on the next page.
In the words(?) of Belt from The Croods:
Dun Dun Dunnnnnnn!
Holy SHEET. That… that’s kinda nuts.
Laughed my ass off at “I don’t have enough d12s.” That’s another thing you never want to hear a GM say.
It could be worse. It could be “I don’t have enough d20s”. Or even more terrifying, “…Huh. Well, that’s interesting.”
So.. I’m torn… Do we go with ‘Sadtrombone.mp3’ or ‘Nelsonhaha.mp3’ for this?
Why not both?
I in particular went with “Nelsonhaha.mp3” in my head. Also “Wince.mp3”
That was glorious. I did that, once, to someone who sought to call a prince’s attention (6 attacks a round, four crits, more damage than the party had combined health…) and the whole party instantly learned just exactly how important learning about the society in my campaigns was.
The lesson, here, is that luck-throws beat the pants off of stability-builds any day?
Personally I think the moral is never go nuclear, your opponent might just go for mutually assured destruction.
Side effects of chronic backstabbing disorder include… Your body becoming dismembered…. Soul-crushing agony…. And a really big thump…
I just want to say “Splorch!” is a sound effect that should be used more often 😉
When I read this years ago I thought it was hilarious.
Rereading it now, I realize how very upset I would be if this happened to me.
I mean, picture it from an outsider’s perspective. You’ve heard of Dove, he’s known to be an elitist ‘that guy’ and he’s certainly shown his colors through this experience. But, it’s still a tournament and he has just as much a right to a fair game as anyone else. Then, after a secret note and a few secret rolls from the Dungeon Master, a player is allowed to summon a demigod that insta-kills him.
Even if you hated Dove, you’d still be like, “Whoa, wait, was that a spell? How did she summon that guy? Was this in the rules of the setting?” And you know if it was something established in the rules of the setting there’s no way Dove wouldn’t have been like, “Oh, I can summon a demigod by praying if I align myself with this particular Deity? Well of course I’ll be doing that.”
In the end, Dove got screwed and no one should particularly feel good about it.
I still feel pretty good about it. Dove did nothing to redeem himself in any way that would merit sympathy. 2 strips back, he pulled a similar move and even said he’d read the material so he knows what’s up…
Nothing’s changed from then till now as far as Dove goes.
He did pull a similar move, but it was a public roll that everyone saw, despite future cheating allegations.
In this case it was a secret note and secret roll that ended with instant death. I mean come on. That’s classic RPGHorrorStory material. If Sam knew this was going to be instant character death, he owes it to Dove and the onlookers to be upfront with what is going on.
And yes, I am saying he *owes* something to Dove. As the neutral referee, he owes Dove the courtesy of explaining the situation behind his character’s instant death.