Dungeon Run: Group Two
I hate writing gamers like this. I really do. The sad part is that I have actually heard guys talk like this to lady gamers in the past. FYI: Never do that around me. I make a scene. No, seriously, a HUGE fucking scene. Don’t be these guys. (I have a larger post on this subject coming up soon)
As for some Karthun lore in this strip:
1. Amy is playing a mage bound to an earth elemental and as you can see, the type of bond determines the look of the mage.
2. Dallas is playing a thief (one of the four core Karthun classes) with a ranger as her profession. In regards to lore, she is actually playing a member of the Moon Watch, a group of urban rangers in the city of Narhan, The City of Harsh Reflections.
3. Continuity fans will note that Amy and Dallas play best buddies Beatrice and Abigail of the Innsmouth Garden Society.
Hover-Text: I guess they got the point huh, guys? The shaft? They’re quivering in their boots? Any of this archery humor working?
To be fair, it wasn’t obvious that the mage was a woman…stone and all. Nor, indeed, the ranger. If I hadn’t read your commentary, I wouldn’t have a clue what that was about. And the lack of a shaft in the fourth cell didn’t make it obvious what had just occurred.
That said, a very satisfying ending.
While I agree that by their looks it wasn’t obvious they were women, the last two panels are self explanatory thanks to the bow, cause it shoots arrows and not puppies….
I love that ranger is a profession rather than class.
Is paladin a profession as well?
Yes it is. Right the now the professions in the play test document are:
Bard, Druid, Paladin, and Ranger
What is Mage, then? Is it a profession of Druid?
Oh, never mind, Mage is a base class. Now I get it. 🙂
YEP! The base classes are Mage, Priest, Thief, and Warrior.
I’m curious, how does the professions affect the base classes? Do they replace class abilities, add some more, or it’s just flavor? I’m trying to come with such a concept for my hybrid Pathfinder Beginner Box/E5.
I want to try this so bad.
The Favored Enemy part had me chuckling the most. Math, Mondays, and split ends are things I’m sure we could all use a bonus on now and then.
Just desserts for the a-hole crew. I can’t even imagine playing with guys that act like that around women. My wife games with me occasionally, but luckily the main store we PFS at has a pretty decent balance of men and women, so we haven’t run into such d-baggery.
Also, second panel reads “spilt en–” instead of what I believe should be “split en–”
This arc is amazing, as was the last Karthun arc! I can’t wait to take it for a spin when it drops in some form.
Really? “Just desserts”? They were rude to her so she shot them.
Seems like a disproportionate response to me, kind of like that Carrie Underwood song. You know, “He’s hitting on some bar skank so I’m going to commit a massive act of property damage.”
Oh wait, the title is “Before He Cheats?” Well, that certainly makes Carrie Underwood’s character in that song look absolutely sane now, doesn’t it? Why, maybe she can get some relationship advice from that nice Annie Wilkes woman. Or at least borrow her sledgehammer.
It’s a game. It’s not like Dallas brought a bow into the store and shot the players. So yeah, just desserts.
Besides, it was stated at the start of this arc that PvP was allowed. No requirement that you work with your starting group. You want to be a jerk? You’ll get some comeuppance.
“Some comeuppance” for being a jerk is to get shot in the head? No, “some comeuppance” for being a jerk is a punch in the teeth, tops.
Last I knew, rudeness wasn’t a death penalty offense, even in a game.
It’s a game. In a comic strip. No one was actually killed. Or even injured. It’s two levels removed from real life.
If some douchebags don’t get to play in a tournament because they were being jerks, I’m not going to shed a tear. Sam, or Pops, would have been well within their rights to throw them out right then and there for their comments. Dallas just saved them the effort of having to do so.
And I have to reemphasize: No one actually got hurt.
Well, that’s your opinion, and you’ve got a right to it.
I maintain that it’s a ludicrous response to kill off characters for the high crime of rudeness, but know your audience, I suppose. You apparently enjoy “Alice in Wonderland” style game mechanics.
Interesting counter-thought, though…if they’d had a lawful good paladin around, would said paladin then be required to kill the murderer? Or would the paladin believe that the dead had gotten their “just desserts” for being rude?
hi, 2020 called, you’re an idiot, steve. don’t be a dick at the playing table and you won’t catch some fucking consequences. also fuck you.
Understandable response to Steve’s claims, but not really called for. Rise above Logan, rise above! Never try to fight an idiot on his own terms, he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience…
Given that the objective of the game is to be the last man standing, other players are either aids or obstacles. The behavior of these 3 demonstrates that they are unlikely to willingly aid the 2 players they are wasting time mocking so unless they would serve as meat shields, eliminating them makes sense. In a tournament like Dragon Run, fools can get you knocked out of the game faster than strong players.
Depends on who’s playing that paladin, I would think.
Some additional thoughts:
1) This being Brian’s comic, I feel the response was exactly proportionate to the level of “HUGE fucking scene” he mentioned he’d make if dudes pulled this kind of dialogue out around him. Resonable disclaimer, there. Heh. Also, thank you, Brian.
I could leave it there, but I feel the need to get a little soap-boxy.
2) I also feel like this response is exactly proportionate to the “rudeness” because it’s not simple rudeness. It’s sexist, elitist, exclusionary, ignorant crap. What you call rudeness, many female gamers call “every other day in nearly every gaming/geek situation I try to walk into.” Comic cons. XBox Live. LARPs. Table tops. MMOs. The comments sections of a sadly large number of gaming/geek related web-things. Everywhere, every day. It is a toxic atmosphere that most male gamers do not experierience with the frequency, or the vehemence, that many female gamers do. We still, in nearly every realm of gaming and geekdom, are told we’re objects, or lesser, and/or that we must prove ourselves just to stick around and ‘play with the boys.’
Which might be why you view this as rude, but I view it as representative of something hurtful, and that happens to me and my friends often. You are (I super hope!) not going to have to experience this kind of attitude directed at you, let alone year after year in 14 years of gaming that you still do because you’re stubborn and screw those silly people. Heh. What I do hope is that some day you are able to put your self in our shoes, because empathy is the most important thing any of us can have if we don’t want to see situations like this – the sexism or the nearly TPK – anymore. With empathy, maybe you’ll be able to see this situation as something far, far deeper than just rudeness.
P.S. – You can prolly guess that if I were playing the paladin, those heads all woulda rolled about .2 seconds after they got holy. This may be less for sexism and more for the looks I get from some male players right after I unexpectedly steamroll their characters. I love that look. I admit it. Though it is somewhat ignoble, I do.
P.P.S. – I would never play a lawful good character because I’m horrible at it. Heh.
Applause from the peanut gallery.
At the root of it all, it still comes down to one thing. No comment, no matter how sexist, elitist, exclusionary or what have you justifies murder.
Now–and maybe I should have said this going in–if she would have shot them all in the back of the leg, say, that would have not only showed off her prowess, but it would also have been recoverable. Would have made a great plot point: “Three assholes belittle the woman in the party, she pulls off an incredible move, they respect her, get healed up, the game carries on with everyone a little better for the experience.”
But instead what we’ve got here is “Three assholes belittle the woman in the party and she straight up murders them. Now you’d better cheer for the murderer or you’re just as bad as the corpses on the floor right now.”
I won’t apologize for not being in favor of homicide. I’m in favor of self-defense, but belittling mockery isn’t the kind of thing that force is required in defense of. What I hope is that some day you are able to see that murder is wrong, except in cases of self-defense, and just being insulted, regardless of the nature of that insult, is never appropriate to respond to with killing force.
Those three corpses weren’t in the right. But neither was the woman who fired an arrow through all three of their heads over an insult.
Okay, I know there’s no way this person will see this comment years later, but this is such a persistently idiotic response that I compulsively have to say this: ‘NO ONE ACTUALLY DIED!’
In game shit should never translate to out of game shit, but the reverse is not the same. Three assholes ruining the game for other players are absolutely rightfully fucked in-character. If Dallis hadn’t done it, as the GM or store owner, I would have. I would have ejected their stupid fucking asses out of the store and justified the deaths of their characters somehow just to wipe my world clean of any tiny influence those assholes would have left on it.
If I were the GM, I would happily fudge the rules temporarily to give her every advantage needed to kill the characters of those assholes, because *THEY ARE NOT REAL PEOPLE WHO ARE DYING*, and while I am wholly an advocate of treating the world as if it were real and giving respect to the entities in it, that only applies as long as there is also respect mutual respect from the people playing the game. It’s baffling that anyone has to tell you this, even if you’ll never see it, but if even one person stumbles into this comment section in the future and sees this discussion, I truly do not want that idiocy to be the last word in it.
Equally important, the groups are loosely assigned. You don’t have to work together. The rudeness demonstrated that the guys were not interested in taking the ladies seriously, which leads to the reasonable conclusion that they might interfere with the ladies trying to win the prize. Dallas didn’t murder them, she removed 3 liabilities from her team and cleared the playing field.
Yeesh, back up a step. Consider the gaming group here. You start in a random group of people in a PvP-allowed situation. If your first impression is to be condescending and belittling, and make the game unenjoyable, then it’s reasonable for that player(s) to remove you from their playing experience via removing your character(s).
It’s not murder, it’s removing a game variable. The fact that she gets the 3-in-1 shot kind of shows that the geek behind the screen approves of removing this kind of player. Just because you pay the money doesn’t mean you get to play all the way to the championship.
Seriously, separation of game from reality much?
There’s better ways to make a point. This is not one of them.
Steve, you’re being obstinate, but I think I do actually understand where you’re coming from.
In a more story-heavy game, characters are, well, actual characters, with hopes and fears, likes and dislikes, friends and families, childhood memories, etc. That’s a lot of work to put into creating a character, and we grow attached to them as they start to feel like real people. Losing such a character is always hard, and when it’s some a-hole player backstabbing them then it’s the worst of all: a pointless death. At least if you die during the course of the story, you can feel like your character made a difference.
But that’s not what’s happening here. The circumstances are entirely different. This is, well, a Dungeon Run. And a one-shot, at that. As far as I can tell, none of these characters existed before the game started, and they’ll probably cease to exist after it’s over. They aren’t even real people; just a collection of stats that allow the players to use and abuse the rules in order to win the game. To top it all off, it was expressly stated that PvP was permitted, and eliminating your competitors is actually a viable stategy, especially considering that only a limited number of players can survive each stage of play.
It would be sort of like if you got together with your friends and built characters for the express purpose of pitting them against each other in death matches. This is a game, pure and simple, and in-universe concepts of morality just don’t apply.
Really, I think the closest comparison would be if, say, you were playing some online game (say, Call of Duty or Team Fortress 2), and another player was being rude, so you kicked him from the server. That player is free to say what he pleases, but neither you nor I are obligated to put up with his BS. He is also free to find another server to play on, just as these three guys are free to take copies of their character sheets and go play elsewhere. Their characters aren’t “dead”, they’ve just been removed from this tournament.
Also, even if it were a more story-heavy session/campaign, if I were the GM I would not put up with this sort of rude behavior, either. I probably wouldn’t jump straight to killing off their characters, but it would eventually escalate to kicking them out of the group (which is much worse than killing their characters) if they didn’t reform their behavior. As a player, I’d either talk to the GM after the session or find a new gaming group, assuming I don’t bust a gasket mid-session.
love your post grey but I disagree with you on one thing. If I was running a game(a more private one obviously not an event like this)and people were saying things like that in an obviously out of character context I would immediately remove them. People acting like that only reinforce the too often true stereo-types about gamers and make perfectly capable gamers feel like outcasts in a place where they should be fully accepted and all because some idiot man-child is insecure.This is doubly true for a situation like the one presented where it’s pure crunchyness and mechanics. there characters weren’t being dicks they were so they were punished accordingly.
“(S)he who d-bags first, bodybags first.” Sounds reasonable to this GM.
@Xayl1
I think the one thing we can all agree on is that this sort of behavior is unacceptable. How exactly it should be dealt with is much more subjective, and would likely vary depending on both parties involved.
I think Hanlon’s Razor applies here, as well. “Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.” It might seem like they’re deliberately being jerks, but, particularly for socially inept people (as many nerds and geeks tend to be, myself included), they might just be unaware that this kind of behavior is unacceptable (as silly as this sounds).
And of course they will try to rationalize and justify their behavior, but their logic will always break down at some point. That’s usually when you can tell if they’re really jerks or just ignorant. And ignorance can be cured with education. (Pain, er, “disciplinary action” can be very educational.)
This may mean showing the offending player the door, but even then, you should follow up and see if they’ve thought about what you said. Give them some time to cool off and do some soul searching, and they might come around. Or not.
I’m a very forgiving and compassionate person, so I believe in giving people second chances. Put another way, I’m kind of a pushover. I’m not sure if this is better or worse than being too heavy-handed. I might be more pleasant to be around, but a single bad player could tear the group apart because of my unwillingness to take action. You have to find the proper balance.
This is all assuming that you’re in a position of authority in the group (e.g. the GM). If you’re not, then your best options are to talk to your GM privately about any issues you’re having and hope they deal with it, or to just find a new group.
Rogue class; ranger profession? I’m even more intrigued by your game. Especially if pompous jerks can be my favoured enemy. 🙂
THIS. Favored Enemy: Pompous Jerks must be a thing. Where do I put my money to make this a thing?
Run your own campaign. 🙂
Using base classes and professions sounds like an excellent pairing. And the Patriarchy line was well placed and hilarious. This is a great comic.
2 thoughts when I got to last pannel, in that order:
1) Badass ranger!
2)How do you validate “The Patriarchy” with your GM? Does it apply to any non-drow sentient humanoid (which is a bit over-powered) or does it depends of the targetted individual? Where is the line?
At least, those guys were had genuinely funny comment despite their bias and you hating writing them. Besides, I’m always, always proud to tell people there is consistently at least 2 ladies at the campaigns I play and in face I don’t remember my last guys-only game. One of them is even my GM. If the friend I invited the other day is available and if we have a party of 4, the next campaign I DM might have more ladies than gentlemen around the table, me inluded!
Of course, it doesn’t matter which gender my dice partners are. Most of the ladies around me joined because of their boyfriend, it’s true, but they all stayed because of the game itself. And some of their characters could and would kick my PC’s butt if they acted like those jerks above!
Also possibly non-gnoll? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spotted_hyena#Social_behaviour
I wish this had a panel with their reactions at the table.
No not really. Players of this ‘caliber’ usually have diarrhea of the mouth over things like this and need something they respect (Usually a larger male with a disinterest in how their limbs are attached.) to keep them becoming violent.
Brian.. Thank you!!! I am framing this!
I LOVE this!!!! I almost never played RPGs because my 1st experience was with guys who had me make a character, then using a penthouse comic as their reference material, had me join the game — naked, tied to an altar — END OF GAME…
I left and stopped being interested in the possibility of playing rpgs cause I thought that’s how guys treat girls who like to game, then luckily 4 yrs ago I met a guy who got me to try again, now I LOVE it. I’ve played pathfinder, d&d, Iron kingdoms, dark sun, some fate games and am now about to start an old school ad&d game to see what I missed out on…
It really irks me all the time I lost because of that bad experience… pls nobody ever be those guys…
That could be a PSA.
The “quivering in their boots” line was great. I really enjoyed it.
I have a policy as a DM: if you’re truly enough of a talking anus to earn my undying ire, I, as the god of the universe you are in, will drop an anvil on your character. There is no saving throw, and it will kill your character. If your apology is really well and truly heartfelt, your character may only be maimed. I’ve only ever had to suggest it was even about to happen once, but these three would have been the victims of the exceedingly rare rapid-fire triple-anvil.
I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t have been able to talk me down to a maiming. Depending on their behavior, they might have a hard time talking me down to not dropping an actual, physical anvil on them.
Yea, I’d have exploded on them myself.
I love your assertion that you’d be making a huge scene. That conduct is really the worst.
If you talk shit about chicks in my game (out of character, be sexist in character if you want, as long as it’s compelling), I will kill your character. I will then strongly consider doing the same to the player.
If I were the owner of a game store and I heard that, I’d make a show of kicking you out and publicly shaming you by making it abundantly clear in the future that you’re no longer allowed back, and why.
The DM then high fived Dallas, and told the three a**holes to go whine to Sam.
… and Chuck Norris shed a tear for the sheer awesomeness of it.
And then got beaten to death by an LGBT group.
Yeah, I can see that.
there are entirely too many players like that who could use an arch(er)enemy.
Groan.
But give you a point for being on target here.
It was just a shot in the dark, but I’ve heard worse.
I used to do archery jokes, but I took an arrow to the knee….
Ok, there’s no need for violence, I’ll show myself out.
Okay, that joke was just overdrawn.
I wholeheartedly support booting out douchenozzles like that, but I do feel that “karmic justice” comics like this are getting out of contact with reality. You have to be careful that you’re being egalitarian and not making every female character into a Mary Sue who’s right about everything and instantly kills all the evil, sexist males when they let their crotches do the thinking. Sexism is sexism, and it doesn’t matter who says it.
I really love your strip, Brian – I really do. However, I don’t want to see it turn into a tract where “liberated womyn” are always right about everything and the “patriarchal rapist male surpremacists” are the villains. Social awareness is fine, but the real world doesn’t work that way, and author tracts are tiring to read.
Gonna well-actually this with sexism only has teeth when it’s being perpetrated by people in a position of societal or other power and, sadly, men still occupy that position despite inroads. Misogyny is terrifyingly, deadly real. Misandry hurts some guys feelings.
Also, Brian draws zillions of decent guys. And the “patriarchal rapist male supremacists” really never are the good guys. Killing their character through your character being awesome is a great response to assholes. Killing the assholes themselves, less great response.
Anybody ever notice that nobody ever complains about male mary sues? it’s only the lady badasses who immediately are complained about?
Dude does awesome stuff and is good at everything? This guy is awesome and I want to be him or his best friend and I love him forever and ever (no homo) (but srsly)!
lady does awesome stuff and is good at everything? MARY SUE OMG WTF SO LAAAAAME UR A BAD WRITER AND STUFF WTF GURLS SUCK
Well, perhaps it would help if you could name a time or two when a female character was rude to a male character, he stabbed her through the heart, and everyone said “Boy, she sure had it coming.”
What I’m most entertained by with these comments is how dudes get their feelings most bent out of shape by this gal’s intentionally hyperbolic response to their sexism, because this comic strip totally doesn’t feature hyperbolic responses to other things ever as its method of dispensing humor. Totally not ever or anything.
It happens in reality all the time. Girl gets raped and then murdered? What was she doing out at that time of night/why was she dressed like that/she shouldn’t have led him on. The excuses go on and on and on and on and on and on into infinity. We work within the system of oppression, we get shit for it. We get tired of bullshit and get angry, we’re dismissed as nut jobs. Why are women not allowed to get mad without being called crazy or over-emotional? When guys do it, everyone’s supposed to be all, oh, we’re sorry, we’ll do everything we can to protect your precious, sensitive fee-fees!
HEY STEVE about the same time it’s happened to guy characters which is NONE. They were douchebags in a PvP setting, they got what they deserved. Period.
Steve, your argument is baseless and nobody cares. Go blow wind somewhere else please.
Favored enemy = the patriarchy…too perfect.
Douchey players piss me off. The first time my wife came with me to a Pathfinder Society game, there was one guy ranting and raving (seriously, he was ANGRY) talking about how they shouldn’t allow newbies to play in PFS games, especially at conventions like Gen Con. Now, she wasn’t there to play that time, but it made her reconsidered even thinking about playing.
Thank goodness for people like James Ward. I was playing in one of his Metamorphosis Alpha games at Gary Con II and my wife, once again, accompanied me to watch. He asked if she was playing. She responded no, she was just going to watch, and besides, he had a full table. He shook his head and smiled, “No one watches at my table, everyone plays!” He didn’t care that she didn’t know how.
She still tells stories about that Metamorphosis Alpha game. 😀
Damn Skippy!!
I demo Board Games on the weekends and hate the mouth breathers who treat the ladies like this.
I despise douchebags like this. Its sexist and deplorable. Gaming, as a hobby, should be a place where we all feel safe and comfortable no matter what our gender is. The only people who we should be against are those turd sandwiches who think its okay to act like the three guys in this strip.
Awesome work Brian. Hilarious and poignant.
Having lots of fun trying to pierce the pieces of the setting together.
I’m going to guess that the dude in the middle is a priest of the smith god and the others are normal warriors.
”The city of harsh reflections”? According to Sam’s room of notes the city has a dark and a light side, so the Moon rangers are supposed to patrol the dark side?
Correct on all counts, Mr. Soares!
By the way, what kind of priest Dustin’s character was before being burned to death?
Oh my GODS I want to play this so bad! Dallas is totally the type of character I would play. In fact, I can think of a character of mine I play who is very similar. Thief with a ranger profession? Hellz yes! Also – The Patriarchy? Fantastic. Love it.
Would my character do what Dallas did in character? Yes. Absolutely. That’s what my character would do! Would I do it out of character around the table? No of course not that’s ridiculous. But if someone ever treated me like that OOC around the table I would make a scene just like Brian. You would no longer be at said table. That sh*t won’t stand.
I think the Steve’s of the world take things a little too seriously. It’s a game within a comic strip where things are infinitely possible. Anything goes in a game as long as the GM approves. Don’t like? Find a new gaming group.
Brian,
Please make a T-Shirt related to this so I can throw money at you. Hell, I’ll even design it and let you sell it just so I can wear one. You have NO idea (or maybe you do) How often these guys show up in real life. I didn’t think I could enjoy your work more than I already do and then you do this. Well done and thank you.
MAJK
I would buy this shirt too! please make it & take my money!
“Favored Enemy: Patriarchy” tee-shirt? I’m interested, and I can think of some others who would be too.
That punchline really cracked me up. Not only is it classy and fits the context perfectly, my sister named a stuffed animal skunk “the Patriarchy” only a couple of hours before I saw this!
I’m happy that only a small tidbit of posters so far have been ‘offended’ by the lady’s reaction in this comic. Shows you have a good following. She beat them at their own game.
I’m sorry guys, but if someone in my group said -anything- like this regarding my sexuality, my witch would be slumber + coup de graceing their asses in a heartbeat. And being discriminated against for my sexuality isn’t nearly as common as being discriminated against, teased, and bullied for their sex or gender.
So ya. Go girls. And guys. And all inbetween. Who fight this shit.
And go Brian for showing both awesome and flawed male and female characters. My <3 goes out to you.
It amazes me that there really are so many horrible gamers like this. Ive never seen the true mysogenist gamer. Women were always encouraged in the games ive played (tho the stereotype of women playing to hang our of cuz of bfs were more prevalent for me than girls there to game. Fun side note there, when one guy’s character died and he threw a fit and left his gf stayed and finished playing the day with us, hah!).
Anywayz dont feel bad about writing these guys brian. Youre a writer making villains. They do or say bad things so the heroes can smack them down. Which the women of d20monkey have a great history of doing so.
I just wonder what she rolled for that shot, 3 fatal hits requires either a strong bow and or a pretty good roll even with all 3 heads bunched together.
guessing 19.
It’s her critical maneuver (they are beefy in Karthun).
My only complaint about this strip is that, clearly, she wouldn’t have shot them through their heads, since their brains are a non-vital organ…I’m thinking ‘crotch-shot’.
Brian, I think you need to draw a box of tissues for some of the poor downtrodden guys commenting here. Better make it a manly one though.
I consider myself very fortunate not to have encountered this kind of douche-baggery in my 30+ years of gaming. And anyone treating any other player with such disrespect in any game I’m a part of is hitting the road (if I’m hosting/running) or I’m leaving myself (if not) after giving the offender(s) a piece of my mind.
Steve’s not being obstinate, he’s being a men’s rights ass, whether he realizes it or not. They were making other players uncomfortable with their misogynistic bullshit, so they were removed from the game, simple as that. The fact that they were removed from the game by a woman is Steve’s problem. There is no actual murder going and and he knows it, he’s constantly going back to that point, as if the rest of us are too stupid to understand his point, because he knows that eventually we’ll stop arguing with him, and he will have “won.” The Dungeon Run is a safe space for players of all kinds, and these three players aren’t respecting that, and neither is Steve, but because a woman acted against men in her own best interest, and the best interest of her fellow lady player, she done wrong, even though she was totally within her rights.
Yup.
Admittedly I haven’t been gaming for that long, but I thankfully haven’t actually seen any players like that in my local game shop (which also hasn’t been open that long either, but maybe we’re just lucky). I did play a character in Pathfinder that acted like that to women, but in my defense I was playing a CN ranger of Kostchtchie, and one of Kostchtchie’s commandments basically boils down to “bitches ain’t shit”. The girls in my group knew I was just roleplaying and more often than not I played him as such an over-the-top he-man women-hater that he made them laugh instead of get them upset, but I still felt like a dick for playing him.
As cathartic as gibbing three sexist assholes with one arrow may be, I flinch when I read the words “the patriarchy” in a webcomic. Reason? Sinfest. Getting some of your own back is entirely appropriate. Having a character whose target of choice is the same as the utterly humorless Sisterhood makes me nervous.
All I can say is “trust me”.
So Brian… are we saying that you’re planning on releasing a playable Karthurn?? If so I want in on the play test lol.
I am indeed!
All I will say is that when it gets off the ground is SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEH
Excited!
I volunteer for online beta test!
Well, play by post or hangout 😀
I will hump your leg like an excited dog for a playtest…or not, whichever gets me the chance to give this thing a spin.
As a woman, a gamer, and a GM, I love this strip!
I hate it when guys think the only reason a female would be at a gaming table is because her boyfriend is there.
Not saying that I haven’t run into my share of pocket succubi, (that’s what we always called non gamer girls who only came to the games to be with their boyfriends). But on the whole, most of the female gamers I’ve met were actually pretty damn serious about the game and didn’t tend to be treasure squirrels. (Always trying to be wherever the treasure was regardless of where their character actually was at the time it was discovered.)
In my experience that seemed to be a particularly male trait, none of the women that I gamed with or ran for ever seemed to conveniently forget that their character was in another room or far too far down a corridor when I would tell a player that their character found something.
More than a few guys seemed to need constant reminders that they weren’t supposed to use out of character knowledge and just suddenly be wherever the treasure was. I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve had to penalize a male player for suddenly stating that he was opening a chest when his character was three rooms away when it was discovered and no one had gone back to tell him they found something.
One guy playing a mage actually got himself poisoned because he stated that he was going to try and open a chest that the rogue had just found before she got a chance to even check it for traps. I decided that the trap would be punishment enough for him basically saying that he was in the same room when only moments before he’d been checking a different room but when he heard me tell the rogue that she had found the chest suddenly he was there trying to open it.
I let him know after the game that I was going to start strictly enforcing the rule and penalizing for use of out of character knowledge. If he stated that he was in another room and then tried to be where he shouldn’t be just because someone else found something interesting, he’d start losing exp. That pretty much cured him of the habit.
Not that I’m saying that the female gamers’ were perfect. I ran into my fair share of drama queens too, just on the whole the one’s I met were far more interested in the story and the work put into a campaign. The guys just seemed to be more interested in hack n slash and treasure finding.
As much as the comic itself made me chuckle, I always tend to look at such characterizations the same as I do “the jock” or “the brain” stereotypes from 80’s movies. Yeah, they are easy to make jokes with but it feels kinda predictable set up. As for real people acting like that, I never actually seen it happen, though I am not exactly mr. social either so not surprised. Guess I have not had the luck of running into such jackasses in person. In games online, well, can’t say I have when the few instances I have could well have been a troll just being a jackass of a MRA flavor that time. Certainly seemed like it at the time with the added racism, homophobia and “you mad bro” they also threw out.
Touching on what someone else was saying though, in a real analogical situation like that, the female player killing the other characters like that wasn’t the right way to handle it. Not because of some idea of it being an unjustifiable reaction in a game from a player point, on the contrary, personal beefs will damn near always end up in game in one form or another and when it allows PK, well, is to be expected.
No, it stems from from the idea that if the action was enough to get them thrown out, stop the game a moment and throw them out for the behavior. Don’t rely on karma to teach them, because aside from being an unreliable tutor, all that does is play into people’s own worldview to twist it into justification. Real world analogy, those douche-nozzles would blame women for their character deaths and be bigger assholes next time they got a chance. At least throwing them out would force them to accept that such public displays of the asshole complex will have repercussions, even if they would still blame others. End result, higher chance of at least not acting like a raging douche. Honestly, it is the best you can hope for from some people.
Brian,
This is righteous and right on, period. Fuck them, fuck the horse they rode in on. That’s neanderthal bullshit.
Nope, sorry to disagree with you here, but just kicking them out would have reinforced their worldview too.
“Oh look, the helpless little damsels need people to stand up for them, boo hoo, poor babies”.
I have dealt with jerks like that and anything you do to try and make them accept that their bullshit is strictly on them just gets turned around to reasons why it’s not their fault. These types of people are just immature children who refuse to take responsibility because someone in their lives taught them that this was how to get your own way.
if they aren’t going to change, then why deal with them? Boot them first opportunity and make it clear you don’t want them back. I have no obligation to use my time set aside for having fun educating sub-human shitheads as depicted in the above comic.
If I was the DM at that table, I would have ripped up their character sheets immediately, and kicked them from the game with out a second thought. That kind of behaviour is not acceptable, not wanted, and beyond despicable.
Seems reasonable to me. Reading the comments I would agree it was ‘excessive’ if it was in any way based on reality or buggered up other peoples games. It didn’t. It was a reasonable response in my opinion. Why reasonable? Because that attitude would have killed her game more surely than she did theirs. A long, slow painful death of misogyny and idiocy averted by a quick arrow to the head (though it should have been the knee, for comedic purposes). Still this attitude is what makes gaming with girls such a pain in the ass for everyone who isn’t an idiot. If the person was a minority and people were offering the same commentary based on their culture, would it be deemed appropriate? Not really no. It would be racist. So… why this? It closes off the fun and balance for everyone. Personally i would be happy for every game to have an ‘act of god’ bolt that kills the characters of people who act like that.
Late in catching up with the strip; which I love by the way. Never gamed with a lot of women but enjoyed it when I did. They were, on average, as good and bad as the rest of us in the groups I was in. They just wanted to have fun and play like the rest of us.
Thought the response was perfectly proportionate for a comic. 😉 And as a frequent player of paladins, my character would’ve stepped in to shut them down; if I had time, that is. 😉
Why anyone would do anything to ruin someone else’s fun is beyond me. Life is hard enough for all of us without morons taking away the fun from our ‘playtime.’ Sorry for the soapbox-like comment, but I just don’t get it.
Kato
Patriarchy racial enemy: +4 to hit and +4 damage vs Dudebros
That might just be the most bad-ass ranger I’ve ever seen. Love it!